DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Lanya on July 28, 2007, 08:24:34 PM
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Neoconservatism Is Dead
Posted July 27, 2007 | 03:32 PM (EST)
Charles Krauthammer, not content with having been proven deadly wrong in his world view of many years, learning nothing from the bloody disasters of the policies he so aggressively promoted, now attacks Barack Obama for suggesting America should talk with enemies as well as friends.
Our first and last neoconservative President, George W. Bush, is the lead witness for the prosecution in the case whose verdict is the death of neoconservatism.
Never has any philosophy been proven so wrong, so fatal, so disastrous for our country and so deadly for our troops as the views expounded by neoconservative theoreticians.
Their ascent to power meant tragedy, failure and death. Their arrogance and their imperial grandeur has alienated what Jefferson called the decent opinion of mankind. Their tactics have been pursued with contempt for alternate views, corruption of our democratic system, and condescension towards those who know far more about military affairs than they do.
In fact, one of the great specialties of the neoconservative movement is that so many who so ostentatiously failed to serve in the military, when their time came, so sneeringly question the patriotism of others, including those awarded medals for valor in combat.
When Ronald Reagan was changing the world with Mikhail Gorbachev, there were the neoconservatives, uttering their sneering contempt for Reagan, comparing his talks with Gorbachev to Pearl Harbor, comparing his diplomacy to Neville Chamberlain.
George Bush, Dick Cheney, and their fellow neoconservatives know better than Reagan about negotiating with enemies. They know better than Eisenhower about military industrial complexes. They know better than Ford about seeking diplomatic agreements to control the spread of weapons of mass destruction. They know better than Nixon about achieving breakthroughs with our major adversaries.
They are very good about hurling insults to attack their domestic enemies and very bad about supporting wounded troops, disabled veterans and homeless heroes.
Neoconservatives are very special people, in their own eyes. When things go wrong they become the party of perjury and pardons, the party of abuse of power and abuse of executive privilege to cover up their failures and crimes.
Neoconservatives champion the politics of fear, desperately seeking to frighten the people to justify their attacks on freedoms guaranteed by statute and constitution.
Neoconservatives embody the politics of profiteering, masterminding and organizing the most corrupt occupation in world history, staffed by ideological partisans, rewarding their campaign contributors, mismanaging tens of billions of lost and stolen dollars, under the imperial arrogance of a proconsul awarded the Presidential Medal Of Freedom.
Neoconservatives know better than generals, with their contempt for the Geneva Convention and their actions that civilized people call torture.
Our neoconservative theoreticians believe that George Washington was wrong and George Bush is right. Even torture is done with the big lie that they are promoting freedom and democracy with their corrupt occupation, their war against the Geneva Convention, and their shadow CIA created in the bowels of Rumsfeld's neoconservative Department of Defense.
And then they try to keep their secrets.
And then they lie about what they do.
And then they bear false witness to Congress.
And then they claim that criminal acts are protected by privilege.
And then they complain when confronted by the law.
And then they whine when juries convict their leaders of perjury and demand the first of many presidential pardons.
And then they escalate their catastrophic war over the objection of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
And now they want to continue this war in perpetuity and dump this disaster on the desk of the successor, to the man who calls himself the decider.
And there they are, again, today, on the oped pages of the newspapers, in their discredited think tanks, on their hate ridden right wing radio, before the smirking courtiers of the cable networks, still claiming they are right and their deadly blunders must be escalated again, and again.
Neoconservatism is dumb, discredited, and dead.
While they cover up their dirty laundry, and plan their next wars, and hire their criminal attorneys, and lobby for their pardons, the clock is ticking, the day is coming, when a a grateful nation will celebrate their removal from the high councils of government, once and for all.
Neoconservatism is dead.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brent-budowsky/neoconservatism-is-dead_b_58154.html
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Bukowsky is an idiot.
Bush is no more a neocon that you are.
He isn't even Jewish.
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But, he has unfortunately surrounded himself with such and their policies recently have not been, shall we say, awe-inspiring.
Being basically a William Buckley-style Old Guard Conservative, I find their actions reprehensible. And, not only in foreign affairs. How about our blossoming budget deficit? When, if ever, will THAT be addressed?
SS and Medicare problems are not only this Administration's. Earlier Administrations have dipped into the SS fund, for example, as well, even the precious liberal's savior, Bill Clinton. And, Medicare has been a disaster waiting to happen for several Administrations as well, but no one, including Congress, has the stomach to seriously address these issues.
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Hmmm.
What is the neocon policy on domestic spending.
Didn't know they had one.
neocons basically are Great Society Liberals who have focused on foreign policy.
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Neoconservatism Is Dead
Posted July 27, 2007 | 03:32 PM (EST)
Charles Krauthammer, not content with having been proven deadly wrong in his world view of many years, learning nothing from the bloody disasters of the policies he so aggressively promoted, now attacks Barack Obama for suggesting America should talk with enemies as well as friends.
Our first and last neoconservative President, George W. Bush, is the lead witness for the prosecution in the case whose verdict is the death of neoconservatism.
Never has any philosophy been proven so wrong, so fatal, so disastrous for our country and so deadly for our troops as the views expounded by neoconservative theoreticians.
Their ascent to power meant tragedy, failure and death. Their arrogance and their imperial grandeur has alienated what Jefferson called the decent opinion of mankind. Their tactics have been pursued with contempt for alternate views, corruption of our democratic system, and condescension towards those who know far more about military affairs than they do.
In fact, one of the great specialties of the neoconservative movement is that so many who so ostentatiously failed to serve in the military, when their time came, so sneeringly question the patriotism of others, including those awarded medals for valor in combat.
When Ronald Reagan was changing the world with Mikhail Gorbachev, there were the neoconservatives, uttering their sneering contempt for Reagan, comparing his talks with Gorbachev to Pearl Harbor, comparing his diplomacy to Neville Chamberlain.
George Bush, Dick Cheney, and their fellow neoconservatives know better than Reagan about negotiating with enemies. They know better than Eisenhower about military industrial complexes. They know better than Ford about seeking diplomatic agreements to control the spread of weapons of mass destruction. They know better than Nixon about achieving breakthroughs with our major adversaries.
They are very good about hurling insults to attack their domestic enemies and very bad about supporting wounded troops, disabled veterans and homeless heroes.
Neoconservatives are very special people, in their own eyes. When things go wrong they become the party of perjury and pardons, the party of abuse of power and abuse of executive privilege to cover up their failures and crimes.
Neoconservatives champion the politics of fear, desperately seeking to frighten the people to justify their attacks on freedoms guaranteed by statute and constitution.
Neoconservatives embody the politics of profiteering, masterminding and organizing the most corrupt occupation in world history, staffed by ideological partisans, rewarding their campaign contributors, mismanaging tens of billions of lost and stolen dollars, under the imperial arrogance of a proconsul awarded the Presidential Medal Of Freedom.
Neoconservatives know better than generals, with their contempt for the Geneva Convention and their actions that civilized people call torture.
Our neoconservative theoreticians believe that George Washington was wrong and George Bush is right. Even torture is done with the big lie that they are promoting freedom and democracy with their corrupt occupation, their war against the Geneva Convention, and their shadow CIA created in the bowels of Rumsfeld's neoconservative Department of Defense.
And then they try to keep their secrets.
And then they lie about what they do.
And then they bear false witness to Congress.
And then they claim that criminal acts are protected by privilege.
And then they complain when confronted by the law.
And then they whine when juries convict their leaders of perjury and demand the first of many presidential pardons.
And then they escalate their catastrophic war over the objection of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
And now they want to continue this war in perpetuity and dump this disaster on the desk of the successor, to the man who calls himself the decider.
And there they are, again, today, on the oped pages of the newspapers, in their discredited think tanks, on their hate ridden right wing radio, before the smirking courtiers of the cable networks, still claiming they are right and their deadly blunders must be escalated again, and again.
Neoconservatism is dumb, discredited, and dead.
While they cover up their dirty laundry, and plan their next wars, and hire their criminal attorneys, and lobby for their pardons, the clock is ticking, the day is coming, when a a grateful nation will celebrate their removal from the high councils of government, once and for all.
Neoconservatism is dead.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brent-budowsky/neoconservatism-is-dead_b_58154.html
Charles Krauthammer should be given every opportunity to spit his spew until the cows come home, thus protecting freedom of speech, and even though he was born in an egg adjacent to that Bork, adjacent to that of Novak, from the same reptilian bed. One way of identifying the genus is the consistent glaring from under furrowed brows.
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"When Ronald Reagan was changing the world with Mikhail Gorbachev, there were the neoconservatives, uttering their sneering contempt for Reagan, comparing his talks with Gorbachev to Pearl Harbor, comparing his diplomacy to Neville Chamberlain."
I don't recall the term "neoconservative " being used this early , I do recall genuine liberals calling Reaga an idiot for calling the Soviets an "evil empire".
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Good point, Plane.
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Bukowsky is an idiot.
Bush is no more a neocon that you are.
He isn't even Jewish.
What does being Jewish have to do with it? Neoconservatism is political philosophy, not a religion.
So a lot of neocons are Jewish. Big deal. Jews are over-represented as political philosophers in every ideology from Anarchists to Libertarians to Liberals to Communists to everything in between. A neocon is someone who holds neocon beliefs. And by all available evidence, Bush qualifies.
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Read this (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=3000&R=785F27881) written by Irving Kristol, one of the founders of Neoconservatism.
He seems to think Bush qualifies.
The older, traditional elements in the Republican party have difficulty coming to terms with this new reality in foreign affairs, just as they cannot reconcile economic conservatism with social and cultural conservatism. But by one of those accidents historians ponder, our current president and his administration turn out to be quite at home in this new political environment...
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What does being Jewish have to do with it?
Absolutely nothing. But i figure if Lanya can post articles chock full of sloppy thought, i can post tongue in cheek statements too.
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What does being Jewish have to do with it? Neoconservatism is political philosophy, not a religion.
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Now that is one inept statement. Don't you read?
It is a political philosophy that states loudly and often that Israel is our "best ally" and can do no wrong. Neocons NEVER have a harsh word for anything Israeli.
Protecting Israel is the main reason neocons wanted to invade Iraq.
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Huh? Conservatives such as William Buckley have been BIG Isrealis supproters for years and no one calls him a neocon.
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William Buckley have been BIG Isrealis supproters for years and no one calls him a neocon
That is because he isn't a Great Society Liberal gone global.
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Huh? Conservatives such as William Buckley have been BIG Isrealis supproters for years and no one calls him a neocon.
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Uh... that would be because Buckley (an heir to a huge domestic oil fortune) is in favor of lower taxes and puny government, especially for zillionaire oil tycoons much more than he favors Israel. He is a buddy with a number of wealthy Jews who also favor lower taxes and puny government.
Buckley likes Buckley's money MORE than he likes Israel. He is a wealthy ratwing Roman Catholic.
Neocons do not care about deficits. They like wars, especially those that they think will make Israel safer, and more and bigger weapons for all.
This may be hard for you to fathom, but even though all neocons favor Israel, not all are financial conservatives.
If you had to choose between a small government and one that donates huge amounts to Israel, and chose the puny government, then you would be like Buckley and not a Neocon.
If you favored Israel over the puny government, then you would be more like a Neocon.
If you did this because you think Jesus is coming soon and would like to have the Third Temple built so the End of the World as portrayed in Revelations, then you are a religious nut neocon.
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Huh? Conservatives such as William Buckley have been BIG Isrealis supproters for years and no one calls him a neocon.
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Uh... that would be because Buckley (an heir to a huge domestic oil fortune) is in favor of lower taxes and puny government, especially for zillionaire oil tycoons much more than he favors Israel. He is a buddy with a number of wealthy Jews who also favor lower taxes and puny government.
Buckley likes Buckley's money MORE than he likes Israel. He is a wealthy ratwing Roman Catholic.
Neocons do not care about deficits. They like wars, especially those that they think will make Israel safer, and more and bigger weapons for all.[\quote][\quote]
Well, I DO want the U.S. to have the best weapons. If YOU don't, then perhaps your global perspective has been lost.
This may be hard for you to fathom, but even though all neocons favor Israel, not all are financial conservatives. [\quote]
Gee, if you talked to your students that way, in a condescending tone, you must have had an interesting classroom dynamic.
If you had to choose between a small government and one that donates huge amounts to Israel, and chose the puny government, then you would be like Buckley and not a Neocon.[\quote]
If you favored Israel over the puny government, then you would be more like a Neocon. Ok, so I am a Buckley-ite.
If you did this because you think Jesus is coming soon and would like to have the Third Temple built so the End of the World as portrayed in Revelations, then you are a religious nut neocon.[\quote]
Yes, I am this. And gladly so. I'll live forever, will you?
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If you did this because you think Jesus is coming soon and would like to have the Third Temple built so the End of the World as portrayed in Revelations, then you are a religious nut neocon.
It should be noted that this is only one interpretation of The Apocolypse of John. That particular interpretation (known as premillennialism and dispensationalism) only came to exist in the late 19th century and was moderately popular within some Protestant circles. It was really much later with Hal Lindsey (1973), Tim LeHaye, and Jerry Jenkins (1995) that this notion of "rapture" became a popular interpretation of Christian eschatology.
It is by no means the absolute final say on The Apocolypse of John and is in fact a relatively new interpretation.
More than that, the notion that God's hand in history can be forced by defending Israel in everything that they do (or defending them at all) is ludicrous.
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"More than that, the notion that God's hand in history can be forced by defending Israel in everything that they do (or defending them at all) is ludicrous. "
I concur, and many evangelicals agree as well, but support for Isreal, in general, is Biblical mandated. To think otherwise is not Scriptural.
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If you did this because you think Jesus is coming soon and would like to have the Third Temple built so the End of the World as portrayed in Revelations, then you are a religious nut neocon.
It should be noted that this is only one interpretation of The Apocolypse of John. That particular interpretation (known as premillennialism and dispensationalism) only came to exist in the late 19th century and was moderately popular within some Protestant circles. It was really much later with Hal Lindsey (1973), Tim LeHaye, and Jerry Jenkins (1995) that this notion of "rapture" became a popular interpretation of Christian eschatology.
It is by no means the absolute final say on The Apocolypse of John and is in fact a relatively new interpretation.
More than that, the notion that God's hand in history can be forced by defending Israel in everything that they do (or defending them at all) is ludicrous.
So true. Te world "rapture" is not in the Bible. And I do not know whcih interpretation is correct. I have heard teaching on several and they can all be substantiated by Scripture.