Anyone watching the Egyptian Elections?

[Henny]

Election results may be announced today in Egypt. As to what I'm reading, it would be really scary if the Noor Salafists win - Egypt would become the new Saudi Arabia.

Again, as to what we all talked about earlier this year, the Muslim Brotherhood are Boy Scouts compared to some of these other groups.
Egypt awaits election results

Cairo (CNN) -- Initial results of Egypt's first parliamentary elections since the fall of President Hosni Mubarak are due as early as Thursday.

Both the Muslim Brotherhood and the Al Noor Salafi Muslim Party have claimed a lead in ballot counting, but election officials have been tight-lipped.

Voting took place Monday and Tuesday, the first in a multi-step process to pick members of the lower house of parliament.

The lawmakers will then be tasked with drafting a new constitution.

It was the first time some Egyptians -- young and old -- ever cast ballots after three decades of Mubarak's rule.

Some voters and human rights activists expressed hope that their votes will actually count, though some boycotted the elections saying they don't trust the voting will be free and fair.

There were reports of some illegal campaigning taking place, with the Egyptian Association of Human Rights alleging some cases of vote-buying in the city of Alexandria.

Elections for Egypt's lower house of parliament are scheduled to take place in three stages, based on geography. The last of the three stages is set to take place in January.

Upper house elections will run between January and March.

Presidential elections will be held by June, according to the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, Egypt's acting ruling body. Military leaders have said they will hand over power to a new government when one is elected, but many Egyptians say they don't trust the council and fear the military will cling to power.

During the past two weeks, at least 42 people have been killed in clashes, as protesters called for an immediate end to military rule. An additional 3,250 have been wounded, according to the Health Ministry.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/01/world/meast/egypt-elections/?hpt=hp_t1

[BSB]

"it would be really scary if the Noor Salafists win"

What might that mean for Israel? And would it effect the changing dynamic in Syria?

[Plane]

      Looks as if the Muslim conservatives are doing well enough to controll the government. If they form a coalition of simular minded partys the majority will be strong.

     I think we should celebrate and congradulate the Egyptians, the people speak and are heard , if what they want is a pious Islamic government then they should have it.

      What they have to keep is the democracy, the new government should do as it pleases bearing in mind that in  afew years the people shall speak again. If this new government drags the country into a bad direction , it is within the power of the people to peacefully depose it. The wisdom of the people can be trusted , if not so then Americans have no creed . We are obliged to accept the will of the Egyptian people.

        This doesn't mean that the USA will get along with the new Egyptian government , I think it likely we won't. Neither the government nor the people have much history of getting along well with the extremely conservative forigners , Muslim or not.

          If we don't get along well we might not ought continue the gifts we have been giving to Egypt, but this should depend more on the actions of the new government than on the action of democracy itself, I don't think we should ever say that aid money should depend on who is elected , that would seem like overweening influence. After the election we should negotiate any new deal with the new government as we find it.

[Henny]

"it would be really scary if the Noor Salafists win"

What might that mean for Israel? And would it effect the changing dynamic in Syria?

BSB, I don't think it would impact anything in Syria.

As for Israel - and not meaning any offense to you, of course - I don't know and I guess I don't care how it affects them.   

[Xavier_Onassis]

There is really very little definitive information in the media here about the various Egyptian political parties.

There is a language barrier, but also a cultural barrier. Most of the time, Muslim politicians are seen only as pro-American, pro-Israel, or anti-Anti Israel, and I am pretty sure that the US and Israel are not the major and crucial issues to most Egyptians. It seems to me that they want a return of tourism, jobs, and a government that is more responsive to the problems of the average Egyptian.

There are some Americans to whom Israel is a single issue, but very few who would see Egypt in the same way. The first things many Americans think about in terms of Egypt are Steve Martin doing his King Tut routine, Cleopatra, and Charleton Heston leading the Hebrews out of Egypt. None of these have anything to do with Egypt today.

What do the Noor Salafists stand for?

I see that they are for Sharia law. That seems pretty unrealistic in a country so heavily dependent on non-Muslim tourism.

[BSB]

Well, it's no offense to me Henny. I'm Jewish nor am I particularly pro Israel. The problem is when Israel gets in trouble they want something from us, meaning America. So, while I'm not Jewish or particularly pro Israel, I am an American, who lives here, votes here, pays taxes here, and is concerned about the future of this country.  And, no offense to you of course, Henny, but I could care less about how conservative that part of the world gets except how it effects us. If they want to live in the dark ages, they can be my guest. If they don't have the guts to stand up to thugs, that's their problem. If they don't know by now that women are the equal to men, they can rot in hell for all I care. 

Montain climbers say all concern for others gets thrown out the window above 20,000 feet. It's every man and women for themselves. The world is rapidly getting above 20,000 feet. 

BSB

[Henny]

What do the Noor Salafists stand for?

I see that they are for Sharia law. That seems pretty unrealistic in a country so heavily dependent on non-Muslim tourism.

To be clear, all Muslims are for Sharia law. Even Jordan, famous for tourism, has Sharia law. The difference is the strictness of interpretation.

Salafist - Salafi. The strictest and most fundamental in Islam. Saudi Arabia is Salafist. You are right, not very realistic for Egypt - they don't have Saudi's money to get away with something like that... but who said that average citizen is realistic? In a country of 80 Million, there are more simple, poor people who have had nothing but their religion to embrace all of these years of suffering than educated academics.

[Henny]

Well, it's no offense to me Henny. I'm Jewish nor am I particularly pro Israel. The problem is when Israel gets in trouble they want something from us, meaning America. So, while I'm not Jewish or particularly pro Israel, I am an American, who lives here, votes here, pays taxes here, and is concerned about the future of this country.  And, no offense to you of course, Henny, but I could care less about how conservative that part of the world gets except how it effects us. If they want to live in the dark ages, they can be my guest. If they don't have the guts to stand up to thugs, that's their problem. If they don't know by now that women are the equal to men, they can rot in hell for all I care. 

Montain climbers say all concern for others gets thrown out the window above 20,000 feet. It's every man and women for themselves. The world is rapidly getting above 20,000 feet. 

BSB

You are right, but you are not only affected via Israel. I sincerely don't know what will impact Israel. I could give you a good guess if it were the Muslim Brotherhood but with the Salafists it's anyone's guess.

Other ways you could be affected: increasing extremism in the Muslim world = more trouble for the entire west. America could get a huge chunk of money back by no longer supporting Egypt - that's huge. Here's another one - they could be extreme like bin Laden extreme and destroy they Egyptian artifacts declaring them pagan - like the giant Buddha carvings that were destroyed. There are so many ways to be affected without considering Israel.

[BSB]

Henny, if they're going to continue playing with fire, and mixing religion with politics, and the law, is playing with fire, there isn't a damn thing we in the west can do about it. And all you have to do is read this forum to realize we have enough problems with our own fanatics right here in America. Dumbshititis has become epidemic. People are thinking Newt Gingrich would make a good president. The folks in Washington have reached an historic impasse. Western economies are on the brink.

How's your life going BTW? It's good to see you posting.

BSB

[Plane]

    Mixing Religion with tolerance and Christianity and politics gets you 1776.


    I note that the changes in America were actually very slow and evolutionary in nature.


       In Egypt it is hard to tell what is presently happening , the results will be easyer to understand when they are decades old and most of the unimportant distractions are forgotten.

[BSB]

"Mixing Religion with tolerance and Christianity and politics gets you 1776."

Two hundred and thirty five years into our experiment and many Americans are still where the Muslims are in this regard. People apparently need to lump things together, it's easier for them, perhaps, that way. They have their lives to live, families to support, children to bring up, marriages to to uphold, love to comprehend, anger to deal with, old age to face, and the ever present Grim Reaper breathing down their neck. They need a sustaining philosophy, an overriding concept, to get them through. Of course it's going to spill over into politics and the law. How could it not? The problem, though, with world views, is that they're dangerous, and divisive. They pit themselves against each other. They compete for power outside of our minds in order to gain space within them. Their life's blood is control. To hold a world view, is to relinquish your freedom to it.

Do we know what we are? Do we know where we came from? Do we know where we're going? Isn't that the wonder of it?  Isn't that our connection? Wouldn't you rather lived a connected life rather than a life fractured by competing world views?   

BSB

[Xavier_Onassis]

Mixing Religion with tolerance and Christianity and politics gets you 1776.

=======================================================
Whatever disputes the American revolutionaries had with the British crown, it was not religious in nature, other than not believing that God sent George III to rule the Empire.

Egypt would be very foolish to destroy ancient artifacts in the name of Islam. Egyptians are mostly the descendents of the ancients, and not Arabs at all.

Tourism depends on the temples, pyramids, and other trappings of the ancients.

[Plane]

Mixing Religion with tolerance and Christianity and politics gets you 1776.

=======================================================
... other than not believing that God sent George III to rule the Empire.

  What more would be needed?

   But you are wrong , there was a lot of Religious meddleing by the government , one of my own ancestors was locked up for preaching as a  Babtist.

[Henny]

Henny, if they're going to continue playing with fire, and mixing religion with politics, and the law, is playing with fire, there isn't a damn thing we in the west can do about it. And all you have to do is read this forum to realize we have enough problems with our own fanatics right here in America. Dumbshititis has become epidemic. People are thinking Newt Gingrich would make a good president. The folks in Washington have reached an historic impasse. Western economies are on the brink.

How's your life going BTW? It's good to see you posting.

BSB

Hey, BSB - things are good, thanks for asking. My kid is growing like a week and I have a dream career that has me running from country to country which is a dream.

The thing is I don't watch American politics anymore. It doesn't make any sense at all to me - and it seems pretty whiny compared to some of the suffering going on elsewhere in the world. But what I looked up and glimpsed, I would say that the U.S. - and in fact the entire rest of the world - is in the middle of major revolution that will be named in future history books.

[Henny]

Henny, if they're going to continue playing with fire, and mixing religion with politics, and the law, is playing with fire, there isn't a damn thing we in the west can do about it. And all you have to do is read this forum to realize we have enough problems with our own fanatics right here in America. Dumbshititis has become epidemic. People are thinking Newt Gingrich would make a good president. The folks in Washington have reached an historic impasse. Western economies are on the brink.

How's your life going BTW? It's good to see you posting.

BSB

Hey, BSB - things are good, thanks for asking. My kid is growing like a weed and I have a dream career that has me running from country to country which is a wonderful. How are you?

The thing is I don't watch American politics anymore. It doesn't make any sense at all to me - and it seems pretty whiny compared to some of the suffering going on elsewhere in the world. But what I looked up and glimpsed, I would say that the U.S. - and in fact the entire rest of the world - is in the middle of major revolution that will be named in future history books.