Author Topic: alright damn it- lets talk about it  (Read 10316 times)

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Plane

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2008, 09:51:48 PM »
http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/november/endangered.html

http://www.nysun.com/article/45847

http://www.sil.org/sociolx/ndg-lg-home.html

http://www.globalpolicy.org/globaliz/cultural/2003/0224language.htm

http://www.ogmios.org/274.htm
http://www.ogmios.org/274.htm


Acoma language teachers are now certified by the pueblo and have access to the Cibola County school system where they teach classes at Laguna-Acoma and Cubero, and also at the Sky City Community School. "We also discovered that one group that was not being helped was the high school aged student," said Leno.

Leno said the program has had tribal members come to the program wanting to teach Keresan, but they discover that just being able to speak the language does not mean they can teach it. "They find out there are lesson plans to develop, and they say that is not how we were taught the language," Leno said.

Leno said it was a little difficult to get the elders to understand that the kids of today are learning in a classroom setting and that new methods can be applied when teaching an ancient language.

The Acoma Retention Program currently has 11 students and is conducting classes in moccasin making for the boys and traditional dress making for the girls. From 2-4:30 p.m., the students - with their Keresan names pinned to their shirts - take instruction from Acoma elders, learning the names of their "tools" in the Keresan dialect.


Cynthia

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2008, 12:02:05 AM »
wow. plane...that's awsome...you really have researched this. THanks

I teach in the public school system in Albuquerque, where many Acoma families now live instead of a top the high cliffs of the ancient pueblo, but the language is still alive.

It's a shame the the anglosized native american has to feel the need to bury the language. There is a depth of language that must be maintained.....in any culture. I told this to grandfather Pino. Speak to your grandson, speak to him often in your tongue..please....

I guess I am surprised that he has not after all that he experienced as a young male, himself. There's NOTHING worse than to be told to shut up and to stop speaking the very language that is the essence of who we are.

It's not ok to tell a people to tear down that wall of words.

Plane

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2008, 12:21:32 AM »
wow. plane...that's awsome...you really have researched this. THanks

I teach in the public school system in Albuquerque, where many Acoma families now live instead of a top the high cliffs of the ancient pueblo, but the language is still alive.

It's a shame the the anglosized native american has to feel the need to bury the language. There is a depth of language that must be maintained.....in any culture. I told this to grandfather Pino. Speak to your grandson, speak to him often in your tongue..please....

I guess I am surprised that he has not after all that he experienced as a young male, himself. There's NOTHING worse than to be told to shut up and to stop speaking the very language that is the essence of who we are.

It's not ok to tell a people to tear down that wall of words.


Could the "Foxfire " sort of project support itself in an Indian community , in spite of current difficultys with school administration and federal funding?

Kids involved in the Foxfire books and magazines would seek out older people in their community and interview them , producing Magazine articls and book chapters that sold at a profit , whilst also learning to interview , compose and edit.

I bought every Foxfire book and read every word , it was exelent. The idea guy for the project got into troubble for molesting students and the project has shrunk. Man .... I wish he hadn't done anything like that , he betrayed his students and wounded a very worthy project.

Produceing a connection between the youngest and the eldest generations in their community , recording the traditions and methods of survival remembered by so tragicly few the Foxfire project is good for everyone involved , the Young learn Journalistic skill and the orth of their elders , the elders enjoy haveing the attention .

There is a current rise in intreast in Native tradition , perhaps a book could be sold ,made in this manner , a self supporting project.


http://www.foxfire.org/

Quote

   Foxfire" is a method of classroom instruction?not a step-by-step checklist, but an over-arching approach that incorporates the original Foxfire classroom's building blocks of giving students the opportunity to make decisions about how they learn required material, using the community around them as a resource to aid that learning, and giving the students an audience beyond the teacher and the classroom for their work.


   Most importantly, "Foxfire" is the living connection between the high school students in the magazine program and their heritage, built through continued interaction with their elders. These students, through their own choices, have worked for four decades to document and preserve the stories, crafts, trades, and the personalities of their families, neighbors, and friends. By doing so, they have preserved this unique American culture for generations to come

Cynthia

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2008, 01:48:46 AM »
wow. plane...that's awsome...you really have researched this. THanks

I teach in the public school system in Albuquerque, where many Acoma families now live instead of a top the high cliffs of the ancient pueblo, but the language is still alive.

It's a shame the the anglosized native american has to feel the need to bury the language. There is a depth of language that must be maintained.....in any culture. I told this to grandfather Pino. Speak to your grandson, speak to him often in your tongue..please....

I guess I am surprised that he has not after all that he experienced as a young male, himself. There's NOTHING worse than to be told to shut up and to stop speaking the very language that is the essence of who we are.

It's not ok to tell a people to tear down that wall of words.


Could the "Foxfire " sort of project support itself in an Indian community , in spite of current difficultys with school administration and federal funding?

Kids involved in the Foxfire books and magazines would seek out older people in their community and interview them , producing Magazine articls and book chapters that sold at a profit , whilst also learning to interview , compose and edit.

I bought every Foxfire book and read every word , it was exelent. The idea guy for the project got into troubble for molesting students and the project has shrunk. Man .... I wish he hadn't done anything like that , he betrayed his students and wounded a very worthy project.

Produceing a connection between the youngest and the eldest generations in their community , recording the traditions and methods of survival remembered by so tragicly few the Foxfire project is good for everyone involved , the Young learn Journalistic skill and the orth of their elders , the elders enjoy haveing the attention .

There is a current rise in intreast in Native tradition , perhaps a book could be sold ,made in this manner , a self supporting project.


http://www.foxfire.org/

Quote

   Foxfire" is a method of classroom instruction?not a step-by-step checklist, but an over-arching approach that incorporates the original Foxfire classroom's building blocks of giving students the opportunity to make decisions about how they learn required material, using the community around them as a resource to aid that learning, and giving the students an audience beyond the teacher and the classroom for their work.


   Most importantly, "Foxfire" is the living connection between the high school students in the magazine program and their heritage, built through continued interaction with their elders. These students, through their own choices, have worked for four decades to document and preserve the stories, crafts, trades, and the personalities of their families, neighbors, and friends. By doing so, they have preserved this unique American culture for generations to come


My mother grew up in West Virginia. This is something that I am sure she would appreciate. The Native American here is a bit different, Plane. The Navajo and Pueblo people must have something similar to build upon for the perserverance of their people. I will look into this. Gosh, I haven't lived anywhere else but New Mexico, but when I read of Native people in the very area that my own mother was raised, it raises my interst, indeed.
Where do you live?

Plane

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2008, 01:53:19 AM »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2008, 11:36:16 AM »
Foxfire was a terrific project. Some tribes are doing more than others. Compare the Cherokee and Choctaw websites and you will see what I mean.

Eventually, the combination of casino money and better educated Indians is going to produce something like this. But it has to come from them, or it's bogus.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2008, 02:00:38 AM »
Foxfire was a terrific project. Some tribes are doing more than others. Compare the Cherokee and Choctaw websites and you will see what I mean.

Eventually, the combination of casino money and better educated Indians is going to produce something like this. But it has to come from them, or it's bogus.



What would make it bogus ?
It would not be strange if there were someone well prepared to run such a program who was an outsider , should there be  wait for an insider to be developed while the eldest continue to die off ?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2008, 09:56:51 AM »
What would make it bogus ?

====================================
Suppose some Iraqi designed a description of your culture and your language to be used in your kids' schools.
How would that NOT be bogus?

Think!

The only authentic way to teach Choctaws Choctaw culture would be for a Choctaw to at least have a major role in developing the text and the program.

This would explain why you are so rarely invited to perform Bar Mitzvahs.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 01:20:00 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2008, 02:15:03 PM »
that`s true
a friend of mine learned mandarin in high school .
but it was taught by a french guy and he asked his fellow student who are mandarin if he`s pronouncing it right.
they said they don`t understand a single word he says.
also in the U.S. they teach chinese in text format which alter the pronouciation and make the student unable the read the character as well
I`m not saying a non-chinese can`t teach chinese but you do need someone who actually use the language on a day by day basis for several years.
samething with spanish
textbook spanish is nothing like spoken spanish

The_Professor

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #69 on: February 20, 2008, 02:31:52 PM »
that`s true
a friend of mine learned mandarin in high school .
but it was taught by a french guy and he asked his fellow student who are mandarin if he`s pronouncing it right.
they said they don`t understand a single word he says.
also in the U.S. they teach chinese in text format which alter the pronouciation and make the student unable the read the character as well
I`m not saying a non-chinese can`t teach chinese but you do need someone who actually use the language on a day by day basis for several years.
samething with spanish
textbook spanish is nothing like spoken spanish

My college-age daughter informed me yesterday that after graduation next year she will helping the underground Church in China...brrrr...she naively thinks that if they catch her they will just slap her wirst or perhaps deport her.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 07:27:57 PM by The_Professor »
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                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

kimba1

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2008, 02:41:53 PM »
uhm
I don`t know what a underground church is.
but if it`s frowned upon by the chinese government she really really needs to fully know what`s she`s getting into.
thier is no such thing as a slap on the wrist china
just being a U.S. citizen is not gonna be much protection

Plane

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2008, 07:17:46 PM »
What would make it bogus ?

====================================
Suppose some Iraqi designed a description of your culture and your language to be used in your kids' schools.
How would that NOT be bogus?

Think!

The only authentic way to teach Choctaws Choctaw culture would be for a Choctaw to at least have a major role in developing the text and the program.

This would explain why you are so rarely invited to perform Bar Mitzvahs.


Alexis De Toqueville is important as an outside perspective , he is one of the most quoted sorces on that period of American history because he was perceptive and because his perspective as a European validates his evaluation when  an American is just jingoistic when makeing the same observation.

White guys who admire Indian culture have written some really good books , Idians are not in any way forbidden to do the same , but what is helped by disqualifying an author from writeing something based on his race?

Wht is going to happen to your career when only Hspanics are allowed to use Espanol?




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The Indian Tipi: Its History, Construction, and Use, by Reginald and Gladys Laubin.


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Books and Articles by Tony Hillerman
The Navajo Mysteries

http://www.umsl.edu/~smueller/books.htm