DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: BSB on December 29, 2009, 07:22:22 AM
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My Lazy American Students
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/12/21/my_lazy_american_students/ (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/12/21/my_lazy_american_students/)
Kara Miller, who teaches at Babson College, Wellesley Mass., wrote an op ed about the difference between her foreign students and her American students. The Americans didn't do too well. It seems they are often undisciplined, poorly motivated, and behind many foreign students in general knowledge like being able to find different countries on a map. (imagine not being able to find Afghanistan or Japan on a map? Good lord)
So, anyway, the reaction has been swift and strong. Personally I have no doubt but what she's right. On the brighter side, keep those immigrants coming. Particularly the Chinese. We have a great Chinese restaurant near here that on Sundays I order from during the Patriots games. The young lady, about 24/25 I'd guess, Chinese, who delivers for them is exceedingly bright. We start talking at my door and the next thing you know 30 to 40 minutes has gone by.
We may have a national IQ test coming up. If Sarah Palin is elected to anything beyond moose catcher, we failed.
BSB
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finally an explanation as to how Obama got elected to anything let alone president
I was born in the state of Mass, lefdt at age 3 and never looked back
what a pathetic state to live in, unless you don't have to work and you get to live off
the backs of hard working taxpayers, then it might be OK
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I was born in the state of Mass, lefdt at age 3 and never looked back
And yet, you are still as ignorant as the students mentioned in the article. Perhaps more so.
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The Americans didn't do too well. It seems they are often undisciplined, poorly motivated, and behind many foreign students in general knowledge like being able to find different countries on a map. (imagine not being able to find Afghanistan or Japan on a map? Good lord)
But of course, it's not the teachers. It's the students' fault for not learning, the teacher is not to be blamed at all.
Geez, look at the thread title! How arrogant!
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I was born in the state of Mass, lefdt at age 3 and never looked back
And yet, you are still as ignorant as the students mentioned in the article. Perhaps more so.
Maybe I'm ignorant -- but self-sufficient, self employed, debt free except for 6 years left on mortgage, living in Southern CA about 1/4 mile from the beach, pretty good looking, healthy, and I count my blessings daily.
And I did it all without the Democrat or Republican Parties or Clinton, Bush, or Obama! Oh and I don't rely on the government to give me a paycheck or wipe my ass. Nor do I need the government to tell me what to eat as I already eat organics and have a healthy lifestyle, use alternative medicines, workout 2 times a week with a trainer, drive a hybrid car (a Prius since 2005), and have installed several devices in my home to conserve water and electricity. My wife has a business too and despite the depressed economy both my business is up about 200% over last year and my wife's remains steady.
So I may be ignorant in your eyes but I can handle it. It works fore me.
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But of course, it's not the teachers. It's the students' fault for not learning, the teacher is not to be blamed at all.
Geez, look at the thread title! How arrogant!
I'm not sure the teacher who wrote the article is the one I would blame. The thread title is the headline of the piece, but with most opinion pieces the choice of headline is made entirely without the author. And I think what Ms. Miller is trying to indirectly accuse is primary and secondary education for not preparing students for learning in college. And I think she would be exactly right to do so.
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I'm not sure the teacher who wrote the article is the one I would blame. The thread title is the headline of the piece, but with most opinion pieces the choice of headline is made entirely without the author. And I think what Ms. Miller is trying to indirectly accuse is primary and secondary education for not preparing students for learning in college. And I think she would be exactly right to do so.
She titled it "America's Work Deficit" originally. Even that is arrogant. And while she may have been trying to place blame on the primary and secondary education (actually, in her follow up article she says that she is trying to blame the "entire" educational system, which would include post-secondary), she still implies that it's mostly the fault of the students for being lazy and inattentive. Nowhere in either article can I find an indictment of the teachers and their methods, rather just complaints about poor study habits and a tangential reference to poor parenting.
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I could be wrong, but I think she blames the education system for letting students develop those habits, which means blaming primary and secondary education. Maybe she is blaming the students, and then I would disagree with her. If she is blaming the education system, then I will agree with her, because I think to criticize primary and secondary schools for letting students slide through school is right.
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I could be wrong, but I think she blames the education system for letting students develop those habits, which means blaming primary and secondary education. Maybe she is blaming the students, and then I would disagree with her. If she is blaming the education system, then I will agree with her, because I think to criticize primary and secondary schools for letting students slide through school is right.
That may be her intention; however, I see nothing directly making that claim in either of her articles.
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As as I said, I could be wrong.
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it`s more like a matter of comparing first generation americans to later generations.
I read somewhere that a very large percent of self-made millionaires are immigrants.
if anything it looks more like immigrants are the majority reason america is great.
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Of course, she is comparing the totality of American students with only the best of foreign students (foreign countries don't send their run of the mill students to study in other countries, they only send their best and brightest).
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The fact is that many American college students are far lazier than their foreign classmates. I agree that the foreign students that I had were not typical of their countries, but the fact is that when you tell a class that there will be a short vocabulary test over twenty specified words in two days, and the foreign students miss no more than four words and the American students score from zero to twelve correct, then the only assumption one can draw from this is that they are either illiterate or lazy.
When the same words appear on a second test two weeks later and three foreign students get them all right and one misspells one word, while the Americans students again get zero to fifteen correct, then it is further proof of this. When you get several American students do not bother to buy the textbook and they ALL download the SAME term paper verbatim from the Internet, then it seems pretty obvious that there is no way to blame the instructor.
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then it seems pretty obvious that there is no way to blame the instructor.
A single instructor, perhaps not. But other instructors (plural) who let them get away with such behavior, yes they deserve a good part of the blame.
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That we have an over abundance of lazy, poorly motivated, students in this country, I have no doubt. And I don't mean to simplify it by using the "the fault lies with all of us" line, but I think that's true. The parents, the students, the teachers, the society in general, new technology, are all part of it.
BSB
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but whats the ratio of those bright foreign students are american or exchange students?
if you see what i mean
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I see what you mean, Kimba, and I don't know.
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also exchange students shouldn`t even be a factor in this topic .
the theme here is to get american born students to put cut down on the world of warcraft and read twain willingly.
the reason immigrant students do well is because alot of them got no problem doing hard work.
this translate to good study habits.
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p.s. I would greatly blame the parents more than school & teachers.
school & teachers jobs is to follow certain instructions and in this day and age parents are almost totally responsible for what those instructions are.
if the course study is laxed it is most definately because some parent wanted it that way.
I say this because is san jose alot of the white parents are leaving calfornia because the asian students are raising the bar too high for kids to compete
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There was a fear around a few years back that all the top schools would be about 90% asian if we didn't cap their numbers.
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since I rarely hear about asians going to top schools , i always thought our numbers were already capped in those schools.
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In a way that could be true, kimba.
Babson dean takes issue with 'lazy' student claim.
http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/wellesley/2009/12/by_jason_woods_globe_correspon.html (http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/wellesley/2009/12/by_jason_woods_globe_correspon.html)
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MOn the brighter side, keep those immigrants coming. Particularly the Chinese. We have a great Chinese restaurant near here that on Sundays I order from during the Patriots games. The young lady, about 24/25 I'd guess, Chinese, who delivers for them is exceedingly bright. We start talking at my door and the next thing you know 30 to 40 minutes has gone by.
First you'd have to convince the Chinese to come here. It's not clear why they'd want to. Asia appears to be on a roll. The west, not so much.
This I can tell you - if I were a young man today, I'd be on the next plane to China and never look back.
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the chinese are like the Iotians of star trek,eventually they`ll want a piece of the action.
here`s proof
http://www.japanprobe.com/2007/05/02/disneyland-in-china/ (http://www.japanprobe.com/2007/05/02/disneyland-in-china/)
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How many generations of American life does it take to loose the work ethic?
Could we start an exchange program with China and Mexico , ...
of Parents,...
for training?
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no good
don`t matter what country, parents who do better in life will have the urge to make thier kids life easy and that`s where the decline happens.
but not all parents.
malcolm forbes refuses to rob his kids the chance to make a billion on thier own.
the only leg up he gave is a better education.
you can`t blame american life alone, look at saudi arabia.
those guys don`t exactly have a lifestlye to know when clients can`t afford stuff.
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oops forgot
it only takes one generation, it`s super easy to spoil a kid if you got the money.
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I have heard this called "affluenza ", the affliction of haveing more wealth than is good for you.