Evangelical groups make war on terror look like a Crusade

[Richpo64]

>>No, it doesn't. If you look at the roots of Vatican II, it was in the making for quite a long time. After implementation, it took quite a long time for the changes to take effect as well.<<

So which is it; the Church never changes, or they change but since they take a long time to change that means they don't really change?

It's amazing to watch liberals twist themselves into a pretzel to defend terrorists. Just simply amazing.

[sirs]

I can't help but note the fascinating effort of applying what the Christians of the Crusades period (and the occasional Canadien Christian uprising in the early 1900's) as supposed validation of how atroscious Christianity is supposed to still be (noting the initiatal op-ed that even started this thread)....I mean the horror of some Christian asking you if you've been saved is so.........analogus to here in the 21st century, having one's head cut off, or even stoned for committing adultery.   Fascinating

[Richpo64]

Well said sirs (I's quote your entire post but I just hate that).

It is fascinating. It's simply the lefts inability to think outside their template. As I've said before, Islam is everything they imagine Christianity to be. It's their opportunity to attack a religion that really is dangerous. But they don't do it.

Fascinating, but scary.

[sirs]

It is scary, BUT, I wouldn't go so far as to paint "Islam" as this evil religion, analogus to how the left tries to paint the evils of Christianity, as that feeds the paranoia that was noted within Miss Henny's original post to this thread.  Islam by itself is likely just as peaceful and fulfilling as Christianity is to devoted Christians. 

It's the brain damaged mutants who have hijacked Islam, & have mutated the message of the Koran, in order to justify the killing of anyone not Muslim or willing to convert or be subjugated to it.  THAT's the message of radical Islam, as personified by Usama & company.  And that is indeed scary......as are those who wish to brush right over that, and try to point some erroneous light at the evil's of a 21st century Christian Crusades, as, I'm guessing, the rationalization as to why so many are ok with the radicalization of their own religion

[yellow_crane]

so, if I understand this right, you blame the created not the Creator? Aren't we all in a state of striving for perfection and not yet there? Many times in my career my units had the highest ratings yet there was always room for improvement, always a desire to strive for not only excellence by perfection. Perhaps Christians are doing this, too, sometimes failing and sometimes succeeding.

The question of Creator is important.

Did Jesus create the oceans and the rivers?

Did Jesus create the flora and fauna?

Did Jesus create anything?

What did Jesus do?

Well, he committed suicide by cop. 

[Xavier_Onassis]

Christianity had its beginnings in the first century AD. From the second century until the Reformation in the 1600's, it was an extremely intolerant and fanatical religion. Islam began in 632 AD, and is still partly in a fanatical phase, not unlike what Christianity went through in the 15oo's and 1600's.

There have always been fanatical and intolerant Jews, but they have not been in charge outside Israel for quite some time. In Israel they do not dominate, but are a major force.

 

[Richpo64]

>>It is scary, BUT, I wouldn't go so far as to paint "Islam" as this evil religion, analogus to how the left tries to paint the evils of Christianity,<<

Oh good grief. You've fallen into the trap as well as they have. Always the caveat so you don't appear a bigot to THEM. Who gives a damn what they think of you sirs? They don't give a damn about you and would throw you to the wolfs if given half a chance. Look, there are 100 million Muslims out there who would cut your head off as soon as look at you. The rest of them do nothing to stop them. Focus on the threat and forget what liberals or the "silent majority" of Muslims may think. Who gives a damn? The fact remains that all these terrorists have ONE thing in common.

>>Islam by itself is likely just as peaceful and fulfilling as Christianity is to devoted Christians.<<

Tell that to the families of people who died on 9/11/2001. Tell that to Israelites who have been blown to pieces on their way to work. Then tell it to Daniel Pearl familiy and all the others who had their heads sawed off and the gruesome act preserved on the internet.

>>It's the brain damaged mutants who have hijacked Islam, & have mutated the message of the Koran<<

Mutated? No sirs. they can read just fine. They quote the Quran and do EXACTLY what it tells them to do. " ... Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them." (Quran 9:5) "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers in fight, smite their necks; when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them." (Quran 47:7)

>>And that is indeed scary......as are those who wish to brush right over that, and try to point some erroneous light at the evil's of a 21st century Christian Crusades, as, I'm guessing, the rationalization as to why so many are ok with the radicalization of their own religion<<

Absolutely. Where are the 900 million Muslims who claim they don't support these animals? No sirs, I prefer to point out the truth about Islam until such time as they themselves can take back there religion and prove it really is a religion of peace. Until then I'll go by what I see.

[hnumpah]

Of course not, but in the scope of the Crusades or Militant Islam, not even close to comparable.  But hey, if winning this game is so important to you, let's get it on record.  I sirs, have conceded that there was an example, post Crusades, that H found that demonstrates extreme, almost militant behavior applied to an Indian tribe, somewhere in Canada, sometime in the early 1900's.  I should have made it more clear to folks like H, that my point was in reference to something, anything, even remotely close to the Crusades, but apparently that wasn't quite understood by those, who apparently have a knee-jerk need to try and prove someone they don't agree with, as wrong

There, that should make it all better.  Now perhaps we can return to more comparable references and context.

All I was doing was responding to your statement that "That's because those who rail against Christians only have the Crusades to use as supposed "validation" of how terrible current Christianity is." Why you have to get into such a snit about it is beyond me. As for my "knee-jerk need to try and prove someone they don't agree with, as wrong", let's just say I'm a stickler for accuracy. If you don't like it, after claiming to be such yourself for lo these many months, you know what you can kiss.

[sirs]

As I said, since it was so important for you to win this game, & having failed to provide you the proper contextual parameters of comparison, (which personally I assumed was pretty transparent) I conceded that your tiny little example, that only effected a small tribe, in a small area of Canada, back in the early 1900's, does apparently fulfill the qualities of discounting my original statement.  You win.  Looking forward now to your example being used in futher op-eds, in place of the Crusades, for the war on terror to look like

[Henny]

Mutated? No sirs. they can read just fine. They quote the Quran and do EXACTLY what it tells them to do. " ... Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them." (Quran 9:5) "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers in fight, smite their necks; when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them." (Quran 47:7)

Interesting. Except that Jews and Christians are considered to be believers. Pagan religions (those not following the one true God, not from Abraham) are the unbelievers discussed.

It's so easy to twist things when you have no idea what you're reading and what the historical perspective is.

[Mr_Perceptive]

>>It is scary, BUT, I wouldn't go so far as to paint "Islam" as this evil religion, analogus to how the left tries to paint the evils of Christianity,<<

Oh good grief. You've fallen into the trap as well as they have. Always the caveat so you don't appear a bigot to THEM. Who gives a damn what they think of you sirs? They don't give a damn about you and would throw you to the wolfs if given half a chance. Look, there are 100 million Muslims out there who would cut your head off as soon as look at you. The rest of them do nothing to stop them. Focus on the threat and forget what liberals or the "silent majority" of Muslims may think. Who gives a damn? The fact remains that all these terrorists have ONE thing in common.

>>Islam by itself is likely just as peaceful and fulfilling as Christianity is to devoted Christians.<<

Tell that to the families of people who died on 9/11/2001. Tell that to Israelites who have been blown to pieces on their way to work. Then tell it to Daniel Pearl familiy and all the others who had their heads sawed off and the gruesome act preserved on the internet.

>>It's the brain damaged mutants who have hijacked Islam, & have mutated the message of the Koran<<

Mutated? No sirs. they can read just fine. They quote the Quran and do EXACTLY what it tells them to do. " ... Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them." (Quran 9:5) "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers in fight, smite their necks; when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them." (Quran 47:7)

>>And that is indeed scary......as are those who wish to brush right over that, and try to point some erroneous light at the evil's of a 21st century Christian Crusades, as, I'm guessing, the rationalization as to why so many are ok with the radicalization of their own religion<<

Absolutely. Where are the 900 million Muslims who claim they don't support these animals? No sirs, I prefer to point out the truth about Islam until such time as they themselves can take back there religion and prove it really is a religion of peace. Until then I'll go by what I see.

Damn, but I agree here!

[Mr_Perceptive]

Mutated? No sirs. they can read just fine. They quote the Quran and do EXACTLY what it tells them to do. " ... Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them." (Quran 9:5) "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers in fight, smite their necks; when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them." (Quran 47:7)

Interesting. Except that Jews and Christians are considered to be believers. Pagan religions (those not following the one true God, not from Abraham) are the unbelievers discussed.

It's so easy to twist things when you have no idea what you're reading and what the historical perspective is.

Those who do not believe in Allah are "infidels." I would present the FACT that Jews and Christians do not.

You keep defending Islam, but the fact is that many if its followers today are committing terrorist acts. I care little about all this discussion about the crusades. I live TODAY and TODAY is when 9-11 happened and people throughout he Middle East celebrated. The Palestinian professor here says he would kill all Jews. When queried, he says he means it. Several years ago, we were going to hire a new professor, well-distinguished one. He was very "high" on the man until he found out he was Jewish. Then, he made such a fuss, we didn't hire the new guy. And, do "moderate" Moslems corral these extremists, nope. No excuses, they don't. So, putting thme into the same barrel sounds authentic to me. They need ot show me different before I change my mind. Round up some extremsits, etc. Then, the West's views might change. Of course, I don't see this happening, do you?

[_JS]

So which is it; the Church never changes, or they change but since they take a long time to change that means they don't really change?

It's amazing to watch liberals twist themselves into a pretzel to defend terrorists. Just simply amazing.

I never said that the Church never changes. Nor did I say it "changes so slowly that it means that it never changes."

Where do you get this stuff?

What I said is that the Holy Spirit moved Pope Innocent III to write a specific letter on forced conversions and you claim that time has made it irrelevant. If anyone is taking a liberal interpretation of Catholicism, it is you.

[_JS]

Those who do not believe in Allah are "infidels." I would present the FACT that Jews and Christians do not.

According to Islam: Jews, Christians, and Zoarastrians do.

You keep defending Islam, but the fact is that many if its followers today are committing terrorist acts. I care little about all this discussion about the crusades. I live TODAY and TODAY is when 9-11 happened and people throughout he Middle East celebrated. The Palestinian professor here says he would kill all Jews. When queried, he says he means it. Several years ago, we were going to hire a new professor, well-distinguished one. He was very "high" on the man until he found out he was Jewish. Then, he made such a fuss, we didn't hire the new guy. And, do "moderate" Moslems corral these extremists, nope. No excuses, they don't. So, putting thme into the same barrel sounds authentic to me. They need ot show me different before I change my mind. Round up some extremsits, etc. Then, the West's views might change. Of course, I don't see this happening, do you?

No Professor, you really don't live in today's world. You live in a version of today's world created by people who have no real understanding of Islam or international politics in general.

Y'all whine about moderate Muslims not doing their jobs, but what do you do? What do you all do when a Christian commits a violent act? When the IRA or UVF set off bombs? When the Lord's Resistance Army continues to perpetrate atrocities, what specific acts do you take?

In fact, Iran was one of the first countries to condemn the 9/11 attacks. Yet, I bet none of you have considered that or given them any credit for it. So what the hell are these people supposed to do? They are damned if they do and damned if they don't in your eyes.

And that doesn't even get to the fact that International Terrorism is not that deadly. You, Sirs, Rich, and others keep making it out to be this horrific, momentous threat to everyone's life and right wing editorialists claim it is a threat to Western Civilization and Freedom itself. Yet, the data (meaning the FACTS) don't reflect that as being even close to the truth. Not even within the realm of feasibility.

So, by all means rant on...but I remain skeptically unimpressed by what amounts to hearsay ("we had a Palestinian Professor who threatened to kill all Jews") and conjecture (Militant Islam threatens the very fabric of society).

[Henny]

Those who do not believe in Allah are "infidels." I would present the FACT that Jews and Christians do not.

You keep defending Islam, but the fact is that many if its followers today are committing terrorist acts. I care little about all this discussion about the crusades. I live TODAY and TODAY is when 9-11 happened and people throughout he Middle East celebrated. The Palestinian professor here says he would kill all Jews. When queried, he says he means it. Several years ago, we were going to hire a new professor, well-distinguished one. He was very "high" on the man until he found out he was Jewish. Then, he made such a fuss, we didn't hire the new guy. And, do "moderate" Moslems corral these extremists, nope. No excuses, they don't. So, putting thme into the same barrel sounds authentic to me. They need ot show me different before I change my mind. Round up some extremsits, etc. Then, the West's views might change. Of course, I don't see this happening, do you?

Whether you define it that way or not, in the eyes of mainstream Muslims, we all worship the same GOD.