Author Topic: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem  (Read 6749 times)

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Stray Pooch

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Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« on: February 20, 2010, 11:17:15 PM »
I'm not really sure how I feel about this.   I completely support the National Anthem and playing it at public events.  And being in a Mennonite-heavy area, I am confronted by their annoying attitudes about the country frequently.  Yet I still think a religion, or anybody for tat matter, has the right to refrain from being patriotic.  I may not respect THEM but I still respect the right.  So this is a little complicated.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100220/ap_on_re_us/us_star_spangled_college

Ind. college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem

GOSHEN, Ind. – For more than a century, there was no playing of "The Star-Spangled Banner" at Goshen College — a small Christian college with ties to the Mennonite Church.

That's about to change. For the first time in the school's history, Goshen College will play an instrumental version of the national anthem before many campus sporting events.

The decision to reverse the ban on the anthem is aimed at making students and visitors outside the faith feel more welcome, but it has roiled some at the 1,000-student college who feel the song undermines the church's pacifist message and puts love for country above love for God.

Since college President Jim Brenneman announced the decision in January, about 900 people have joined the Facebook group "Against Goshen College Playing National Anthem," hundreds have signed an online petition protesting the move and letters sent to administrators and the campus newspaper have overwhelmingly voiced opposition to the change.

"We're very aware that not everyone on our campus that's part of this community shares the same views," said college spokeswoman Jodi Beyeler. "We believe that everyone here should feel like this is home."

John Roth, a Goshen College history professor, said Mennonites have historically avoided the song because its lyrics describe using war and military might to defend the country.

"The link between the national anthem and the military identity of the nation is made very explicit," Roth said.

Mennonites, whose church is rooted in a 16th-century movement in Europe known as Anabaptism, also believe singing a "hymn of allegiance" like the national anthem implies a deeper loyalty to country rather than to God, Roth said. However, Mennonite Church USA — which represents the largest and most mainstream group of Mennonites in the U.S. — does not specifically prohibit the anthem.

Goshen College officials say discussions about whether to change the policy began in September 2008 when the athletic department asked Brenneman to reconsider the school's stance. Brenneman said the teams often bore the brunt of criticism about the policy because the anthem's absence is most visible at sporting events, where it has become part of American culture.

Two months later, a parent from a visiting team game complained to the athletics director when the anthem wasn't played, said Vice President for Student Life Bill Born. Her complaint caught the attention of conservative talk show host Mike Gallagher, who featured the issue on his show. More than 300 people called or sent e-mails to the school, most urging the school to change its policy.

Beyeler said the choice to lift the ban had nothing to do with the national attention generated by Gallagher's show and stemmed instead from the work of a task force assembled last spring. The group recommended playing an instrumental version of the song, followed by a prayer.

The college approved the change, effective with the spring sports season that begins next month. It plans to review its policy again in June 2011.

Brenneman said he thinks the athletic teams are relieved by the decision.

"Sometimes they've been about the only ones who have been on the front lines of this to defend this position. I think we all recognize that that hasn't necessarily been fair to them," he said.

Freshman baseball player Mike Milligan, a Catholic, says students and athletes can choose how much they want to participate. About 45 percent of Goshen students are not Mennonite.

"I don't think that everyone has to show their respect, but we need to at least have the choice to show our respect," said Milligan, who started a Facebook group in favor of the decision. It has more than 200 members.

Some students said choosing an instrumental version of the anthem was a good compromise.

"You're not offending anybody, and everybody kind of gets a little of what they want," said junior Sabrina Swain.

But Allen Shenk, a senior music major who is Mennonite, isn't sure that solves the issue.

"It's a good compromise in the sense that it doesn't specifically mentioned the bombs bursting in air," he said. "But everybody listening is going to be thinking those words to themselves anyway, so is it really helping that much?"
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Kramer

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2010, 11:57:14 PM »
Are there only Mennonites in your area and do you have WoMennonites living there too?

Stray Pooch

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 12:10:08 AM »
Are there only Mennonites in your area and do you have WoMennonites living there too?

I just don't understand how you can start a whole religion based on after shave. . .
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BT

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2010, 12:52:52 AM »
Wonder if the school gets govt money.

Stray Pooch

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2010, 01:27:02 AM »
Wonder if the school gets govt money.


Interesting question, but I'm not sure that makes a difference.  It doesn't appear that this decision was a result of any legal pressure - just pressure from outside sources.  It seems like a no-win situation anyway.  If you don't play the anthem, outside people get offended.  If you DO play the anthem, your own people get offended.  Seems to me in that situation you fall back on Rick Nelson's "Garden Party" theory.
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BT

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2010, 01:49:39 AM »
Quote
Seems to me in that situation you fall back on Rick Nelson's "Garden Party" theory.

Exactly. You can't please everybody, might as well please yourself.

And they had been pleasing themselves for 116 years.

The fear of someone other than some outside busybodies might have prompted the decision.

I'm not sure Patriotism is a group thing, my country right or wrong is a valid mantra, though certainly groups can be patriotic.




Universe Prince

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 11:46:37 AM »

my country right or wrong is a valid mantra


Is it? Why?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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BT

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2010, 12:47:11 PM »
did I say it was?

Michael Tee

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2010, 03:09:10 PM »
<<Wonder if the school gets govt money. >>

Why, does the government have a mandate to make everyone sing the national anthem in unison at sporting events?

I thought conservatives want a smaller, less intrusive government.

Universe Prince

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2010, 08:11:46 PM »

did I say it was?


I coulda sworn you did. The post with the phrase "my country right or wrong is a valid mantra" in it says it is your post. Is there some reason I should believe you did not say it?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2010, 08:17:43 PM »

my country right or wrong is a valid mantra


Is it? Why?

yes it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Decatur


You don't abandon your freinds when they are wrong , and they don't abandon you when you are wrong either.

Stephen Decater copuldn't have agreed with the Congress every time he got orders , but what should his attitude have been?

That he would obey when he agreed, and would love his country when it was doing things his way?

Michael Tee

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2010, 08:24:24 PM »
<<You don't abandon your freinds when they are wrong  . . . >>

So if they need someone to be the lookout or drive the getaway car when they decide to rob a bank, you don't abandon them?

<< . . .  and they don't abandon you when you are wrong either.>>

And if you kill someone they'll help you to bury the body and ditch the weapon?  That makes sense - - I heard it said that a friend is the guy you call when you need help to bury the body.

Plane

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 08:30:41 PM »
<<You don't abandon your freinds when they are wrong  . . . >>

So if they need someone to be the lookout or drive the getaway car when they decide to rob a bank, you don't abandon them?

<< . . .  and they don't abandon you when you are wrong either.>>

And if you kill someone they'll help you to bury the body and ditch the weapon?  That makes sense - - I heard it said that a friend is the guy you call when you need help to bury the body.

This is true , but with a qualifier, a real freind wnats to be good for you too and sin't useing you to your detrement any more than you are useing him to his detriment.

A freind in need is a freind indeed , but a mooch isn't really a freind.

When a freind doesn't care about what is right and doesn't care whether you are hurt , the definition of "freind " has escaped its envelope.

Universe Prince

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2010, 08:35:40 PM »

my country right or wrong is a valid mantra

Is it? Why?

yes it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Decatur


You don't abandon your freinds when they are wrong , and they don't abandon you when you are wrong either.

Stephen Decater copuldn't have agreed with the Congress every time he got orders , but what should his attitude have been?

That he would obey when he agreed, and would love his country when it was doing things his way?
I wonder what people like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin and John Adams would have said about that idea. Hm.

Anyway, is your assertion then, Plane, that all patriotic Americans always support and obey the government?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Michael Tee

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Re: Indiana college lifts 116-year ban on national anthem
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2010, 08:50:44 PM »
<<When a freind doesn't care about what is right and doesn't care whether you are hurt , the definition of "freind " has escaped its envelope.>>

Yeah and when my country doesn't care about what is right, then it is no longer "my" country.