DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Brassmask on October 03, 2008, 04:44:32 PM
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A real drag. :-\
I will agree with BT that I am definitely disappointed that Palin was able to stand up at the podium and read her cards or recite her rehearsed lines for the camera without having a meltdown or have any of her limbs fall off.
This was a sort of referendum on Palin. Everyone sort of knows Biden and knows he's smart and can debate his ace off but Palin was a wild card, an unknown and she had set the bar very low with her interviews. While she did appear to have it together and didn't flake out, she failed miserably on everything else and that is why Americans who watched the debate and were polled following decided that Biden was the better performer.
This debate was a sort of continuation of the McCain/Obama debate. While watching, it appeared that the GOP team was constantly on the attack and had nothing but disdain for the DEM team. Like McCain with Obama, Palin offered up a slate of snark and sarcasm with a smile. I submit that she didn't even offer Biden the respect deserved of an elder, much less a Senator who has dedicated his life to service.
What I fear may have happened with Palin and those who viewed her was that they did see themselves in her and the majority of those didn't like what they saw. They saw a smart-alecky, little know-it-all who doesn't really know shit and will buck the rules and do anything other than to have to give a solid answer to a question including telling the moderator that she won't answer her questions.
For Biden's part, he did what he had to do as well. He attacked McCain and didn't make any headlines. Though Palin didn't, Biden was able to make it through the debate without telling lie upon lie and getting fact upon fact wrong.
For the most part, I felt (as I did with Obama) that Palin was pummeling him mercilessly but he wasn't punching back. I was especially aware of his seething disdain for her (which I shared) and his occasional sighs or exhales during Palin's lies.
What wound up happening though is that rather than Biden appearing to beat up on Palin or condescend to her, the opposite happened. Palin with her goofy Dan-Rather-esque "folksiness" complete with winks and grins and snide one-liners had all of her bullshit brought crashing down around her cute little puppy-dog ears when Biden reminded the country that he knows what they are going through because he knows what it is like to wonder if a child is going to live.
That moment was as real and respectable as anything I've even seen in regards to a politician.
Biden has never been my favorite. He was always running down Dean and he seemed to be a media hog to me for the most part. I've read up on him and he's a real person trying to do the right thing. I learned he is consistently ranked as one of the poorest senators and that is respectable to me.
Following the debate, I fully expected Palin to have won over the world with her non-answer answers. I found it utterly shocking that the insta-polls showed that Palin had done not nearly as well as Biden. She came off as likable to some, I'm sure. From where I sat, she seemed like a nice woman who in way over her head prior to the debate. Now, I no longer consider her a nice woman. She is simply the snarky, little beauty queen who got herself elected. I'm sure she could learn all she needs to know because those kinds of people usually can when their backs are against the wall but she is not qualified to be president ergo she is not qualified to be VP.
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A real drag. :-\ I will agree with BT that I am definitely disappointed that Palin was able to stand up at the podium and read her cards or recite her rehearsed lines for the camera without having a meltdown or have any of her limbs fall off....What I fear may have happened with Palin and those who viewed her was that they did see themselves in her and the majority of those didn't like what they saw....They saw a smart-alecky, little know-it-all who doesn't really know shit and will buck the rules and do anything other than to have to give a solid answer to a question including telling the moderator that she won't answer her questions....She is simply the snarky, little beauty queen who got herself elected.
I fear Brass saw what he wanted to see, and ought not speak for those who aren't already consumed about how dangerously unqualified she's supposed to be
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I fear Brass saw what he wanted to see, and ought not speak for those who aren't already consumed about how dangerously unqualified she's supposed to be.
You may fear some things, but I sense that you do not fear that Brass saw what he wanted to see.
I did not seem to get the impression that Brass was speaking for "those who aren't already consumed about how dangerously unqualified she's supposed to be" , ie, you.
If you feel that she demonstrated great presidential competence, I would offer the thought that no one will stop you from doing so now, and explaining why you think this is so.
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When Fridays roll around, is reading comprehension more of a problem for you, Xo? i.e. "me" am not one of those consumed with how dangerously unqualified Palin is supposed to be. Those would be the ones who have actually opined/implied such. I doubt you'll find any such inferrence from any of my posts ::)
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Palin did fine, Biden did fine.
They will both make fine VP's.
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Palin did fine, Biden did fine.
They will both make fine VP's.
True since VP's usually do nothing. She will however be a disaster when the old idiot dies of surprise if he is elected.
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I liked Brass' take on this. I of course loathed Palin not only for what she stands for politically but for all the negative personal traits that Brass had so accurately observed. Every one of them. But being a conceited ass who thinks himself so much smarter than the average Joe, I was anguished by the thought that the morons watching the debate (i.e., everyone else) were going to be taken in by the phony little-girl cuteseyness of Miss Congeniality, the winks, the smirks, the gosh-us-hockey-moms and the phony back-handed compliments she so freely passed out, "I respect you for calling Obama a lying sack of shit, I respect you for saying he was totally unqualified to be President, I respect you for saying that Obama bin Laden would make a better President . . ."
Well, I was pleasantly surprised by the polling that showed that Biden had come out ahead in the public's eye. Maybe they're not all as fucking dumb as I had expected. Maybe they WILL put aside their dyed-in-the-wool racism and do the right thing in November. The gap does appear to be widening the more the Republican candidates expose themselves to the daylight.
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Well, I was pleasantly surprised by the polling that showed that Biden had come out ahead in the public's eye.
Will you be crushed or proud when you find out the insta-polling was faked?
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I'd be mildly surprised at the poll being faked, but neither crushed nor proud. A little relieved, I guess, not to be as out of touch with the average citizen as now appears, because I always prided myself on my ability to read the public mind.
How do you know it's faked?
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How do you know it's faked?
I don't.
I suspect it was, for the same reasons you do. We both watched it, we both filtered through different lenses and both were amazed at the poll results. Brass was too.
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"I...But being a conceited ass who thinks himself so much smarter than the average Joe, I was anguished by the thought that the morons watching the debate (i.e., everyone else) were going to be taken in ..."
Oh please ...
please
please
please
Never change
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How do you know it's faked?
I don't.
I suspect it was, for the same reasons you do. We both watched it, we both filtered through different lenses and both were amazed at the poll results. Brass was too.
I wasn't.
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I wasn't.
See what I mean about polls?
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How do you know it's faked?
I don't.
I suspect it was, for the same reasons you do. We both watched it, we both filtered through different lenses and both were amazed at the poll results. Brass was too.
The main faked thing about the debate was Pailn, but even the Dr Doolittles of the right were thwarted by her incessant stupid and/or phoney dialect even after they taught he how to pronounce Achmenijad.
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She could have recoted the alphabet in spanish and it wouldn't have mattered.
What matters is how many undecideds she connected with.
How many undecideds felt like she understood.
How many undecideds would not be surprised to see her at a grocery store.
That is what matters and i think she did well with that.
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She could have recoted the alphabet in spanish and it wouldn't have mattered. What matters is how many undecideds she connected with. How many undecideds felt like she understood.
Precisely. The Kool-aide drinking Obamites & leftists claims of how terrible she is, matters not a whit. Nor does it matter much what the right thinks of her, at this stage. It's that undecided pool in the middle, and much like that youtube (http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=7810.msg80201#msg80201) piece Bt played prior, bodes well for precisely the connection Bt is referring to
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She could have recoted the alphabet in spanish and it wouldn't have mattered.
What matters is how many undecideds she connected with.
How many undecideds felt like she understood.
How many undecideds would not be surprised to see her at a grocery store.
That is what matters and i think she did well with that.
Nothing matters to you except results and you didnt even get that.Not out of the Bushidiot and not out of Palin now:
October 2, 2008 at 23:17:31
Headlined on 10/2/08:
The Palin Ploy – No Depth Behind the Wink
by Anthony Wade Page 1 of 1 page(s)
www.opednews.com (http://www.opednews.com)
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October 2, 2008
We have watched Sarah Palin lower the expectations on herself for several weeks now. In an almost calculating manner, she has tripped over herself in nearly every interview. I hated to be this cynical but it appeared that Palin had set herself up to appear capable by merely surviving tonight. Then I realized after the debate that she simply cannot handle follow up questions. THAT is the problem. She is fine when she is rambling through pre-packaged sound bites and winking but when asked for the substance, the depth; there simply is nothing behind the wink.
Let me be clear. Sarah Palin did better tonight then I expected. But during the course of the debate it started to gnaw at me how she was answering the questions. There was nothing but sweeping generalizations, pre-set talking points with buzz words, and deliberative folksiness designed to make her seem more likable; when all it really did was make her seem more plastic. She brazenly stated at the beginning that she would not adhere to the format of the debate and answer the questions the moderator wanted answered. Can you imagine that? And she followed through on her threat all night long. When faced with a question she preferred not to draw an answer out on, she simply gave a one-word response and went back to a previous talking point. She was even asked once what her Achilles heal was as a candidate and she went on a two minute rant about all of her positive attributes! It was almost bizarre in the way that she ignored the majority of the questions and stuck with her script and the format did not allow for correction.
One of the arrogant and moronic talking points Palin kept drubbing was this notion that the Obama campaign keeps “looking back” because they are talking about the disaster the past eight years have been. I understand that the McCain campaign doesn’t want to have the American people vote based on the last eight years but this notion that we should not consider what has happened for the past eight years is beyond stupid. Now in the post debate coverage, this is the chief talking point from the GOP minions. Beware America; this will be their ploy moving forward. Don’t fall for it. John McBush stands for four more years of the last eight years. THAT is why their new tactic will be to not talk about the last eight years and to brand the Obama campaign as “looking back.”
While we are at it, enough with the pre-packaged sound bites. John McCain is not a maverick. It is almost as if their hope is if they say it enough, people will somehow believe it. He has voted with Bush 90% of the time over the last 8 years. His economic plan is the same as Bush. His war plans are worse than Bush. He is McBush and it doesn’t matter how much Sarah Palin smiles at me; that remains the truth. John McCain is not a reformer. He has been the greatest proponent for the deregulation that has crippled our economy. You can wink at me all you like; it doesn’t change reality.
This was a tough assignment for Joe Biden. Clearly the strategy was for Biden to attack McCain and stay away from engaging Palin. I understand the strategy because if he had attacked Palin directly, it would have been spun as picking on the woman. Considering the McCain campaign’s propensity for casting Palin as the victim, this was probably a wise move.
So, Sarah Palin did survive. She did so however by being completely dismissive of the rules and format of the debate and brazenly boasting about it. She also then threw the gauntlet down toward the end by stating that she would not deal with the “media filter” anymore. Keep an eye on this America. If she refuses to speak with the media, as she basically has since being announced, then she is clearly hiding something. It is time that people stand up and remind the candidates who makes the decisions in this country. If she refuses to answer simple questions then she should be dismissed from any serious consideration, period.
Sarah Palin did nothing tonight to suggest that the concerns about her substance were not real. If anything, she confirmed them. She had meandering answers that did not respond directly to the question, ignored other questions completely, and overplayed her folksy hand. I say that as I mean it. I think it is a show. I think she overplayed it tonight. Call me crazy but I do not want a Vice President who can’t answer a question without winking at me and mangling the English language. I said it recently; I do not want to have a beer with my president. I want them to be smart not folksy. I want them to be better than I am; elite…if you will. We have had eight years of a “regular” president and we cannot afford another four years of McSame.
The GOP will try hard to spin this as a slam dunk for Palin. Nonsense. She was relatively vacuous in her answers; smiling and winking instead of reflecting and answering. She had relatively little grasp on facts, even getting the name of the General in charge of Afghanistan wrong. She was completely dismissive of the rules and simply went back to her pre-packaged talking points when confronted with something she couldn’t answer. What we needed, what America needed desperately tonight, was a follow up question. That was what the difference between this debate and her failed media interviews. It is also why she stated in the debate she would not go through those “filters” anymore. I do not blame her because there is no substance behind the flash. There is no depth behind the wink.
Anthony Wade, a contributing writer to opednews.com, is dedicated to educating the populace to the lies and abuses of the government. He is a 41-year-old independent writer from New York with political commentary articles seen on multiple websites. A Christian progressive and professional Rehabilitation Counselor working with the poor and disabled, Mr. Wade believes that you can have faith and hold elected officials accountable for lies and excess.
Anthony Wade?s Archive:
http://www.opednews.com/archiveswadeanthony.htm (http://www.opednews.com/archiveswadeanthony.htm)
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I doubt seriously neither you nor the author of this piece ever in their wildest imagination would vote for McCain or Palin.
As has already been discussed, it is the undecided who will determine the next POTUS.
Not some self described lunatic with a chip on his shoulder.
http://www.opednews.com/author/author4.html (http://www.opednews.com/author/author4.html)
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Palin did fine, Biden did fine.
No, you are wrong. Palin lied. Palin ignored the debate and just gave practiced talking points. Palin had no conception of some of the ideas she was putting forward poorly.
Biden KNEW what he was talking about. Biden made sense with his statements. Biden had facts to back up his statements.
I imagine you are basing your analysis on "expectations". Palin only had to stand up there for 90 minutes and not have a meltdown or have any of her limbs fall off while Biden's supposed "expectations" were to not hammer on Palin and look like a bully or to appear condescending to her and not to make some foolish gaffe like talking about a president getting on tv in 1929. Maybe in that way they both did "fine" but outside that tiny spectrum there were great differences and Palin came up very short.
You may think that by saying it wasn't big deal and it's all well and good, that makes it so, but it doesn't. Palin is a danger to these United States and shouldn't be allowed to dog catcher much less VP.
They will both make fine VP's.
Are you talking about this country?
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She could have recoted the alphabet in spanish and it wouldn't have mattered. What matters is how many undecideds she connected with. How many undecideds felt like she understood.
Precisely. The Kool-aide drinking Obamites & leftists claims of how terrible she is, matters not a whit. Nor does it matter much what the right thinks of her, at this stage. It's that undecided pool in the middle, and much like that youtube (http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=7810.msg80201#msg80201) piece Bt played prior, bodes well for precisely the connection Bt is referring to
Clearly, as my other post this morning shows, she failed miserably to connect with undecideds.
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And clearly, you're mistaken, given the moderate & undecided polling BT's post presented, immediately following the debate.
You're likely referring to the polling coming after the current economic downturn, that can't help but affect the GOP more than Democrats, since its the GOP in poower, and pople don't really care about the context of who actually facilitated the problems at hand...merely who's in power that they can blame
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Clearly, as my other post this morning shows, she failed miserably to connect with undecideds.
And clearly as the poll you referred to in your other post confirms, Palin is more likely to bring CHANGE to DC than Obama.
That is important to you, right.
It's the essence of the Obama campaign.