Teach the orthodox ,orthodoxy

[hnumpah]

I don't think I'd hire a preacher to build my house. or even expect one to have an adequate knowledge to set up my DVD recorder or VHS recorder.

How about run the country?

[Xavier_Onassis]

I don't think I'd hire a preacher to build my house. or even expect one to have an adequate knowledge to set up my DVD recorder or VHS recorder.

How about run the country?
==========================
I doubt seriously that I would vote for Huckabee for president, as he has stated that he doesn't believe in evolution.

He has to be pretty dense to say that publicly, I think. Too dense to run my country.

[Plane]

The writing of the Bible was done by priests. I imagine that a Hebrew builder would have known a more acxcurate value for pi, but the priests would have well been ignorant of that, as building things was not their schtick.

I don't think I'd hire a preacher to build my house. or even expect one to have an adequate knowledge to set up my DVD recorder or VHS recorder.

Darn I just asked a preacher for an estimate for some renovations, he makes his living as a carpenter.

Saying Pi is 3 is not incorect , it is an approximation.
As a descrition of an engineering feat in a non engineering tome ,it is an adequate approximation.

The true value of Pi is not 3.14 either , this is an approximation tw0 orders of magnitue more precice , yet still only about 4% diffrent from three.

NO human being  has ever known the true value of Pi and it is very likely unknowable to anyone less than God.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Saying Pi is 3 is not incorect , it is an approximation.
As a descrition of an engineering feat in a non engineering tome ,it is an adequate approximation.

The true value of Pi is not 3.14 either , this is an approximation tw0 orders of magnitue more precice , yet still only about 4% diffrent from three.

NO human being  has ever known the true value of Pi and it is very likely unknowable to anyone less than God.
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It is simply a repeating decimal, the exact value of which can be easily derived by putting the circumference of a circle over the radius.

The fact that it is not possible to write it in a finite space does not mean that it cannot be used in calculations.

[Amianthus]

It is simply a repeating decimal, the exact value of which can be easily derived by putting the circumference of a circle over the radius.

Pi is an irrational number, not a repeating decimal.

In mathematics, an irrational number is any real number that is not a rational number ? that is, it is a number which cannot be expressed as a fraction m/n, where m and n are integers, with n non-zero. Informally, this means numbers that cannot be represented as simple fractions. It can be deduced that they also cannot be represented as terminating or repeating decimals, but the idea is more profound than that. While it may seem strange at first hearing, almost all real numbers are irrational, in a sense which is defined more precisely below. Perhaps the most well known irrational numbers are π (pi) and \scriptstyle\sqrt{2} (square root of 2).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_number

[Xavier_Onassis]

I meant to say a "non-repeating decimal". But it can be expressed accurately as a ratio rather than as 3.1459,etc.

The film "Pi" was based on a theory by two groups, an assortment of Talmudic rabbi scholars, and an assortment of stock analysts, that pi was, in fact three plus a repeating decimal, and when the actual enormously long decimal fraction was known, then (a) the gyrations of the stock market would be made predictable, and (b) a message from God woulf be revealed.

This assertion in the plot is a bit preposterous, but it is still a very clever film. The protagonist is a Jewish mathematical genius who builds computers and writes programs to discover the value of Pi, and he runs up against these two warring factions. He also suffers from horrible migraine headaches.

It was made in balck and white, and of course, matematics was greatly emphasized, so it did not triumph at the ticket booths, but it was entertaining. I imagine Kimba would love it.

Probably available from Amazon on DVD for a pittance.

[Amianthus]

I meant to say a "non-repeating decimal". But it can be expressed accurately as a ratio rather than as 3.1459,etc.

Since pi is an irrational number, no it can't.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Well, yes, it can. You can express it as the circumference over the radius.

The result will likely be an irrational number, though.

Engineers come close enough to the actual number that there structures do not collapse, in any event.

[Amianthus]

Well, yes, it can. You can express it as the circumference over the radius.

The result will likely be an irrational number, though.

Any number that be represented as a ratio - one number over another - is a rational number. Pi is an irrational number, and therefore BY DEFINITION cannot be represented in that way.

An APPROXIMATION of pi can be represented in this way.

[hnumpah]

Well, yes, it can. You can express it as the circumference over the radius.

Actually it would be the circumference over the diameter.

However, since the circumference is derived by multiplying the diameter by pi - which is an irrational number - then the circumference would be an irrational number itself. Working with the formula

 C
--- = pi ,
 d

since C is an infinite fraction, and pi is an infinite fraction, you could not represent them as a ratio, only as an approximation.

[Xavier_Onassis]

However, since the circumference is derived by multiplying the diameter by pi - which is an irrational number - then the circumference would be an irrational number itself. Working with the formula

==============================================
Can't you determine the circumference of a circle by just measuring it? I am guessing that this is entirely possible.

[Amianthus]

Can't you determine the circumference of a circle by just measuring it? I am guessing that this is entirely possible.

Not accurately. The closer you come to the correct number, the better your approximation of pi.

[hnumpah]

Can't you determine the circumference of a circle by just measuring it? I am guessing that this is entirely possible.

Sure you could - well, at least as accurately as modern measuring instruments would let you. But let's say you are able to make the circumference exactly 3 (feet, yards, whatever). Then the diameter, necesssarily, is going to become an infinite fraction and an irrational number in order for pi to remain the same value. See the problem? One of the components of the ratio (fraction) is going to be an irrational number either way. It is still going to be a "number which cannot be expressed as a fraction m/n, where m and n are integers (whole numbers - h), with n non-zero".

[Xavier_Onassis]

Still, we build round and sperical things all the time, and even though all we may have is a rough approximation to pi, still, our round and spherical objects are structurally quite sound.

They used to drop molten lead from a tower to produce round spherical shot. I wonder if such objects formed by nature such as these shot pellets or soap bubbles could be more perfectly spherical.

[Amianthus]

Still, we build round and sperical things all the time, and even though all we may have is a rough approximation to pi, still, our round and spherical objects are structurally quite sound.

Pi can be irrational and round objects still can exist.

After all, engineers use "imaginary" numbers (multiples of the square root of -1) all the time, and those structures don't collapse, either.

Just because you cannot define it exactly does not mean that it can't be used.

They used to drop molten lead from a tower to produce round spherical shot. I wonder if such objects formed by nature such as these shot pellets or soap bubbles could be more perfectly spherical.

NASA has done experiments with production of more perfectly spherical ball bearings in space. The closer to perfectly round a ball bearing, the less friction it produces. Apparently free-fall environments produce a more perfectly round shape, as gravity distorts the shape.