The new low.

[sirs]

No, I'd wager the real question is.....what business is it of the Fed to use tax payer dollars, with no "end in sight" with what the tax dollars are being used for, in an endeavor that's none of the business of the government to begin with?  Just because the Fed has access to large sums of $$$$ doesn't equate with "well, what can we do with it?"  Especially when its running a deficit

It's a little like the conversation I had with Miss Cynthia......at what point can we say a program has been fully funded??  The general implication is, never.  A budget is supposed to be that....a fixed pie chart.  This % for this, that % for that, this amount for that obligation, that amount for that obligation.  Things that are NOT an obligation, A) should not be funded, and B) if funded, should not have some sky's-the-limit level of funding, based on the idea that all research should be funded.  That defies all reason.....as well as the Constitution

[Plane]

let us resolve that there shall be no moral , religious or emotional restriction on scientific research.

Thank you Dr. Mengele

[Michael Tee]

<<let us resolve that there shall be no moral , religious or emotional restriction on scientific research.>>

Here's a better one:  Let's resolve that the normal criminal law regarding murder and assault apply to everyone including research scientists.  Oh, wait a minute - - it already DOES?  Then I guess we don't need any further resolutions restricting scientific research, do we?

[kimba1]

ok you got a very good point their
as you know I work in a museum and truthfully I see no reason it can`t run without government funding.
it`s not that hard to make it a highly profitable business.
but the amount of needless waste is insane and alot of poor judgement.
ex. toulouse lautrec exhibit was a free exhit
the director after the second week, seeing the big crowds was quite upset.

[sirs]

So true Kimba.  The layers and pervasiveness of waste and abuse in the use of tax payer dollars is beyond criminal.....by BOTH parties.  Yet, 1 particular party thinks that the key to fixing so many of life's woes is to just keep throwing money at the problem, courtesy of the Government.  "Fully fund it" they decry, (when never actually providing where & when that threshold is reached), and damn any deficits.  Just tax those greedy rich folks, all the more.  The government knows better what to do with other people's money than the tax payers.....yea, the same egregiously wasteful and fiscally abusive government 

It's really maddening at times       

[Michael Tee]

<<"Fully fund it" they decry, (when never actually providing where & when that threshold is reached), and damn any deficits.  . . .....yea, the same egregiously wasteful and fiscally abusive government >>

Does any of this rant have any basis in reality at all?  Are there any wasteful experiments in stem cells that these people have in mind, or is this just more crazed ranting and raving from the usual suspects off in the outer reaches of right-wing paranoid fantasies?

[Amianthus]

Are there any wasteful experiments in stem cells that these people have in mind, or is this just more crazed ranting and raving from the usual suspects off in the outer reaches of right-wing paranoid fantasies?

Don't know specifically about stem cell research, but one from last year had caught my eye: the federal government had given a university a grant to study "why people enjoy sex." They spent a few years researching it and determined that most people enjoy sex because it feels good. Don't know what other conclusion they were expecting. I also don't see why the feds are funding this type of research.

[sirs]

<<"Fully fund it" they decry, (when never actually providing where & when that threshold is reached), and damn any deficits.  . . .....yea, the same egregiously wasteful and fiscally abusive government >>

Does any of this rant have any basis in reality at all?  

Yea.....government.  Anytime the government is involved, waste, fraud, and abuse are largely occuring congruently.  It's part of the beast.  That's why the goal is to minimize all the tentacles of government, to lessen said waste & abuse

Are there any wasteful experiments in stem cells that these people have in mind,

Care to produce how "experiments in stem cells" occur??  So, what # is too much, Tee??  At what point is stem cell funding made whole, and anything over is too much??  (hint, I can guess the answer)

[Michael Tee]

<<Yea.....government.  Anytime the government is involved, waste, fraud, and abuse are largely occuring congruently.  It's part of the beast.  That's why the goal is to minimize all the tentacles of government, to lessen said waste & abuse>>

Where are you writing from?  Zimbabwe?  Moldova?


<<Quote from: Michael Tee on September 12, 2008, 06:09:51 PM
<<Are there any wasteful experiments in stem cells that these people have in mind,

<<Care to produce how "experiments in stem cells" occur??  So, what # is too much, Tee??  At what point is stem cell funding made whole, and anything over is too much?? >>

Typical of "debating" anything with sirs - - ask one question of sirs, get back THREE questions in return, and no answers.  OK, what else is new?

<<(hint, I can guess the answer)>>

You're a genius.  Now how about the answer to MY question?

[sirs]

So both deflection & non-answer.  Kinda what I thought I'd get.  Deflection in Tee thinking I, or anyone else here knows how experiments in stems cells are performed, and transparent non-answer in ignoring the funding question.  Gotta admire the consistency though

It would seem in Tee's bizarro world, the government is the peak example of effficiency, with barely a hint of waste or fraud

[Michael Tee]

<<So both deflection & non-answer. >>

To anyone who doesn't live in the same Bizarro World that sirs inhabits, I guess it's in order to explain that "deflection" refers to the deflection of the three questions that sirs asked me in lieu of responding to the one question that I had asked him, and "non-answer" refers to those same three questions.

<<It would seem in Tee's bizarro world, the government is the peak example of effficiency, with barely a hint of waste or fraud>>

Wrong again, in Tee's bizarro world, the prime examples of efficiency and honest dealing are World Com, Enron, Charles Keating, Adelphia, Halliburton, Bre-X, Parmalat, Arthur Andersen, Global Crossing, Conrad Black, the Rigas family. . .   aww, gee, I'm getting tired of trying to remember the whole list all the way back to Teapot Dome and Charles Ponzi.

Gotta feel sorry for sirs, though, wherever the poor bugger lives, it really seems like he has to put up with dishonest, thieving, fraudulent, incompetent government which has just fastened on him like a leech and won't let go.  I hope he doesn't live in a democracy, though, because that would mean his fellow citizens themselves must be either incredibly stupid or incredibly corrupt for returning this den of thieves and vultures time after time after time.  And those are just some of the scandals that have already been detected.  God alone knows what undetected frauds the bastards have successfully gotten away with.  They can't have failed at every single effort of concealment they've made.

[sirs]

Naaa.....not even close.....the deflection was in originally asking a question, no one could answer, then with the follow-up of demanding to answer the non-answerable question 1st.

The non-answer was simply typical, since the answer Tee would have put down would have been along the lines of how there should be no cap/limit to the amount for funding research, funding education, funding healthcare, etc., funding anything and everything regardless of not being a Fed obligation, or if running a deficit.  Money just grows on trees in Tee-leaf land.  And when all the trees are picked bare, start pulling it out of the pockets of the tree growers
 

[Michael Tee]

<<Naaa.....not even close.....the deflection was in originally asking a question, no one could answer, then with the follow-up of demanding to answer the non-answerable question 1st.>>

Yeah.  Here's "the question no one could answer" reproduced in its entirety:

<<Are there any wasteful experiments in stem cells that these people have in mind, or is this just more crazed ranting and raving from the usual suspects off in the outer reaches of right-wing paranoid fantasies?>>

Tough one, eh?  Either they produce a single example of the "wasteful" experiments in stem-cell research that they're always blathering on about, or reveal themselves as liars and fantasists by coming up empty-handed.

Still waiting to the answer to that "unanswerable" question, BTW.  And waiting.  And waiting.

[Amianthus]

Yeah.  Here's "the question no one could answer" reproduced in its entirety:

<<Are there any wasteful experiments in stem cells that these people have in mind, or is this just more crazed ranting and raving from the usual suspects off in the outer reaches of right-wing paranoid fantasies?>>

Tough one, eh?  Either they produce a single example of the "wasteful" experiments in stem-cell research that they're always blathering on about, or reveal themselves as liars and fantasists by coming up empty-handed.

Yeah, it is impossible to answer. Since the funding is not available, no one is writing up grant requests for those experiments, therefore - unless you can read minds - there is no way to know what "these people have in mind" ...

[Michael Tee]

<<Since the funding is not available, no one is writing up grant requests for those experiments, therefore - unless you can read minds - there is no way to know what "these people have in mind" .>>

I see.  So according to you, prior to the Bush administration's refusal to fund human fetal stem-cell research not involving the 60-odd existing cultured lines, no human fetal stem-cell research had been funded by government grant at any point in history, is that what you're saying?