Author Topic: Do Facts Matter?  (Read 4269 times)

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MissusDe

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Do Facts Matter?
« on: October 05, 2008, 10:48:48 PM »
Recriminations.

By Thomas Sowell


Abraham Lincoln said, ?You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you can?t fool all the people all the time.?

Unfortunately, the future of this country, as well as the fate of the Western world, depends on how many people can be fooled on Election Day, just a few weeks from now.

Right now, the polls indicate that a whole lot of the people are being fooled a whole lot of the time.

The current financial bailout crisis has propelled Barack Obama back into a substantial lead over John McCain ? which is astonishing in view of which man and which party has had the most to do with bringing on this crisis.

It raises the question: Do facts matter? Or is Obama?s rhetoric and the media?s spin enough to make facts irrelevant?

Fact Number One: It was liberal Democrats, led by Sen. Christopher Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank, who for years ? including the present year ? denied that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were taking big risks that could lead to a financial crisis.

It was Sen. Dodd, Congressman Frank, and other liberal Democrats who for years refused requests from the Bush administration to set up an agency to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

It was liberal Democrats, again led by Dodd and Frank, who for years pushed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to go even further in promoting subprime mortgage loans, which are at the heart of today?s financial crisis.

Alan Greenspan warned them four years ago. So did the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers to the president. So did Bush?s secretary of the Treasury, five years ago.

Yet, today, what are we hearing? That it was the Bush administration ?right-wing ideology? of ?de-regulation? that set the stage for the financial crisis. Do facts matter?

We also hear that it is the free market that is to blame. But the facts show that it was the government that pressured financial institutions in general to lend to subprime borrowers, with such things as the Community Reinvestment Act and, later, threats of legal action by then Attorney General Janet Reno if the feds did not like the statistics on who was getting loans and who wasn?t.

Is that the free market? Or do facts not matter?

Then there is the question of being against the ?greed? of CEOs and for ?the people.? Franklin Raines made $90 million while he was head of Fannie Mae and mismanaging that institution into crisis.

Who in Congress defended Franklin Raines? Liberal Democrats, including Maxine Waters and the Congressional Black Caucus, at least one of whom referred to the ?lynching? of Raines, as if it was racist to hold him to the same standard as white CEOs.

Even after he was deposed as head of Fannie Mae, Franklin Raines was consulted this year by the Obama campaign for his advice on housing!

The Washington Post criticized the McCain campaign for calling Raines an adviser to Obama, even though that fact was reported in the Washington Post itself on July 16th. The technicality and the spin here is that Raines is not officially listed as an adviser. But someone who advises is an adviser, whether or not his name appears on a letterhead.

The tie between Barack Obama and Franklin Raines is not all one-way. Obama has been the second-largest recipient of Fannie Mae?s financial contributions, right after Sen. Christopher Dodd.

But ties between Obama and Raines? Not if you read the mainstream media.

Facts don?t matter much politically if they are not reported.

The media alone are not alone in keeping the facts from the public. Republicans, for reasons unknown, don?t seem to know what it is to counterattack. They deserve to lose.

But the country does not deserve to be put in the hands of a glib and cocky know-it-all, who has accomplished absolutely nothing beyond the advancement of his own career with rhetoric, and who has for years allied himself with a succession of people who have openly expressed their hatred of America.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NGRjODM1MTJlOGZiZDk2ODI4NTUzMWMxYjgwMjliMGQ=

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2008, 10:59:52 PM »
The people getting fooled into thinking Palin and McCain are not typical Juniorbush Republicans, managed by the same old Oligarchy.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2008, 01:58:01 AM »
What explains the time lag between these bad changes in law and the collapse of Fannie and Freddie?

What that the time it took for the amount of bad debt to pile up to a critical mass, or was this a weakness that was waiting on a shock to fracture?

Michael Tee

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2008, 02:39:25 AM »
How come in eight years of being President, most of it with a Republican majority, George W. Bush did not do a God-damn thing to rectify the situation created by those evil Democrats?

How come on the morning of the very day that the roof fell in, John McCain was fatuously declaiming that the fundamentals of the American economy were strong?  And a week later, that America was in its worst crisis since WWII?

"Blame the Democrats" not only insults the voters' intelligence, but it also reeks of desperation,

Amianthus

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2008, 08:19:29 AM »
How come in eight years of being President, most of it with a Republican majority, George W. Bush did not do a God-damn thing to rectify the situation created by those evil Democrats?

I seem to remember some action was tried around 2003-2004, but the Democrats shot it down "because there's nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie."
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

MissusDe

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2008, 10:20:31 AM »
Quote
How come in eight years of being President, most of it with a Republican majority, George W. Bush did not do a God-damn thing to rectify the situation created by those evil Democrats?

From  Sowell's piece:

Fact Number One: It was liberal Democrats, led by Sen. Christopher Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank, who for years - including the present year - denied that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were taking big risks that could lead to a financial crisis.

It was Sen. Dodd, Congressman Frank, and other liberal Democrats who for years refused requests from the Bush administration to set up an agency to regulate Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

It was liberal Democrats, again led by Dodd and Frank, who for years pushed for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to go even further in promoting subprime mortgage loans, which are at the heart of today's financial crisis.

Alan Greenspan warned them four years ago. So did the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers to the president. So did Bush's secretary of the Treasury, five years ago.


<snip>

Then there is the question of being against the 'greed' of CEOs and for 'the people.' Franklin Raines made $90 million while he was head of Fannie Mae and mismanaging that institution into crisis.

Who in Congress defended Franklin Raines? Liberal Democrats, including Maxine Waters and the Congressional Black Caucus, at least one of whom referred to the 'lynching' of Raines, as if it was racist to hold him to the same standard as white CEOs.

Even after he was deposed as head of Fannie Mae, Franklin Raines was consulted this year by the Obama campaign for his advice on housing!

The Washington Post criticized the McCain campaign for calling Raines an adviser to Obama, even though that fact was reported in the Washington Post itself on July 16th. The technicality and the spin here is that Raines is not officially listed as an adviser. But someone who advises is an adviser, whether or not his name appears on a letterhead.

The tie between Barack Obama and Franklin Raines is not all one-way. Obama has been the second-largest recipient of Fannie Mae's financial contributions, right after Sen. Christopher Dodd.


And this was posted last week; perhaps you missed it?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs[/youtube]

Michael Tee

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2008, 10:24:55 AM »
<<I seem to remember some action was tried around 2003-2004, but the Democrats shot it down "because there's nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie.">>

Did this not happen in a Republican-majority Congress?

Knutey

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2008, 10:28:12 AM »
<<I seem to remember some action was tried around 2003-2004, but the Democrats shot it down "because there's nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie.">>

Did this not happen in a Republican-majority Congress?

Please T . Dont confuse them with thefacts. It might hurt their little feelers . They really do seem to be hypersensitive since their aged and retarded candidates are imploding. O wants to raise their taxes on their $250000 incomes and they just cant stand it!

Amianthus

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2008, 10:54:16 AM »
Did this not happen in a Republican-majority Congress?

As XO is (usually) quick to point out, there was not a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, so according to that theory, they couldn't get anything passed.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2008, 01:30:05 PM »
<<As XO is (usually) quick to point out, there was not a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, so according to that theory, they couldn't get anything passed.>>

Did they even TRY?  Was there ever any evidence that anyone from the evil Democratic side was going to filibuster reform?  Did Bush make any special addresses to the nation demanding that the Congress pass this oh-so-crucial necessary reform?

And in another vein - - were Fanny and Freddy the sole contributors to the mess?  Was AIG the Democrats' fault as well?  Was Merrill Lynch?  Was Lehman Brothers?

Amianthus

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2008, 01:33:36 PM »
Did they even TRY?

I seem to remember some filibuster threats from that time which caused some bills to be dropped, but I don't remember the specifics.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2008, 01:44:29 PM »
Were the Republicans so totally lacking in foresight that they abandoned the putative bill merely from  anonymous threats of filibuster, thereby losing forever the opportunity to demonstrate their vastly superior knowledge and foresight and also the culpability of the evil Democrats for the looming disaster which the Republicans in their wisdom clearly saw coming?  Or was it that they preferred to be known as cowards and wimps, unwilling to advance legislation which they knew to be in the vital interests of the population because of the fear of anonymous threats of filibuster?

You know, Ami, I hope that after eight years in office, the Republicans DO try to blame this whole fiasco on the Democrats, because it would truly be the icing on the cake!  The voting public would have to be MORONS to fall for this, and I don't think at this point, they are in a receptive frame of mind to being called or treated as morons by, of all people, the Republican Party.

sirs

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2008, 01:54:31 PM »
How come in eight years of being President, most of it with a Republican majority, George W. Bush did not do a God-damn thing to rectify the situation created by those evil Democrats?

News flash....because they were BOTH at fault.  BOTH facilitated the current economic mess we're in.  Bush and his administration for pusing for mass home ownership, regardless of their financial stability, and Democrats for looking the other way, when all the warning flags were showing themselves.  Democrats even on record as singing the praises of Fannie & Freddie, in 2004, no reforms or regulations needed here, despite McCain & the GOP's warnings.  All the while Obama & Co raking in the campain contributions from Fannie/Freddie, and Obama's cheif economic advisor, former Fannie CEO


How come on the morning of the very day that the roof fell in, John McCain was fatuously declaiming that the fundamentals of the American economy were strong?

Because of its continuing being taken out of context and LIED about by folks like.....yourself


 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

richpo64

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2008, 01:56:22 PM »
>> ...Bush and his administration for pusing for mass home ownership ... <<

Could I ask what you're referring to here?

Thanks

Michael Tee

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Re: Do Facts Matter?
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2008, 02:05:34 PM »
MT:  <<How come on the morning of the very day that the roof fell in, John McCain was fatuously declaiming that the fundamentals of the American economy were strong?>>

sirs:  <<Because of its continuing being taken out of context . . . >>

No, it was NOT taken out of context.  There was no preceding reference to "the American worker" and no following reference to "the American worker" so there was  no context which could give any meaning to the words other than the plain meaning of the words themselves.

<< . . .and LIED about by folks like.....yourself>>

Oh it was LIED about, alright.  By John Insane  himself, who claimed he meant something totally different from what he actually said, and by folks like . . . YOU, who claim it was taken out of context, but are totally unable to provide any example of the context of those words to indicate that the real reference was to the American worker and not to the American economy.

ahhhh, sirs, can't you appreciate how delicious this all is?  That lying little weasel is being exposed AT THE SAME TIME as both an out-of-touch fool AND a cowardly liar who runs from his own words.  And the people see it that way too.  His campaign is in free-fall already, just wait for the next debate.