Author Topic: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?  (Read 1186 times)

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Michael Tee

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Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« on: July 05, 2007, 02:04:05 PM »
Thinking about an exchange I just had with sirs, I seem to be losing track of Democratic excuses for the support previously given for Bush's war.  Do any of the contenders in fact claim that Bush was lying to them when he made the case for invasion?

My gut feeling is that they believe that voters will reject them if they take a "Bush lied" tack.  "Misled" seems to be a somewhat safer course, as in "failed to present the known cracks in the case that he had," or "presented the available evidence in a very selective manner."  This is stronger than saying Bush was "mistaken" but obviously not as strong as accusing him of a deliberate lie. There is just a huge body of really stupid voters who are so brainwashed by the patriotic bullshit they are fed daily that they probably find it both offensive and incredible for anyone to accuse "their" President of lying.  Reason will never penetrate their Neanderthal skulls, so that represents a huge bloc of votes that would be lost forever to a "Bush lied" statement.

I think you might be able to rank Democratic candidates from 10 (top rating) to zero, depending on their explanation of why they supported the war when they did.  10 for "Bush lied to me" and 5 for "he misled me" and zero for "We all believed the best intelligence at the time."  Except that 10 wouldn't really get anyone off the hook - - he or she would still have to explain how they could have fallen for such a clumsy, unbelievable  and ridiculous falsehood in the first place.  (Hint:  brain damage would be a good place to start.)

BT

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2007, 02:09:56 PM »
Perhaps they don't want to offend the oligarchy.


Michael Tee

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2007, 02:59:53 PM »
LOL

Plane

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2007, 02:07:58 AM »
Thinking about an exchange I just had with sirs, I seem to be losing track of Democratic excuses for the support previously given for Bush's war.  Do any of the contenders in fact claim that Bush was lying to them when he made the case for invasion?

My gut feeling is that they believe that voters will reject them if they take a "Bush lied" tack.  "Misled" seems to be a somewhat safer course, as in "failed to present the known cracks in the case that he had," or "presented the available evidence in a very selective manner."  This is stronger than saying Bush was "mistaken" but obviously not as strong as accusing him of a deliberate lie. There is just a huge body of really stupid voters who are so brainwashed by the patriotic bullshit they are fed daily that they probably find it both offensive and incredible for anyone to accuse "their" President of lying.  Reason will never penetrate their Neanderthal skulls, so that represents a huge bloc of votes that would be lost forever to a "Bush lied" statement.

I think you might be able to rank Democratic candidates from 10 (top rating) to zero, depending on their explanation of why they supported the war when they did.  10 for "Bush lied to me" and 5 for "he misled me" and zero for "We all believed the best intelligence at the time."  Except that 10 wouldn't really get anyone off the hook - - he or she would still have to explain how they could have fallen for such a clumsy, unbelievable  and ridiculous falsehood in the first place.  (Hint:  brain damage would be a good place to start.)


This is a good question but the answer s simple , the canadates do not need to call Bush a liar , there are plenty of people who will suffer no politcal damage from it doing so.

But if a canadate were to call him a liar directly , he would be in the embarrassing position of haveing to explain exactly what the "lie" was supposed to be.

Michael Tee

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 08:23:52 AM »
<<But if a canadate were to call him a liar directly , he would be in the embarrassing position of haveing to explain exactly what the "lie" was supposed to be.>>

That Iraq was a threat to the U.S.A.  A threat that was so dangerous it had to be invaded without further delay.  That the invasion couldn't be put off any longer without risking dire consequences.

I think your next move is to say, where?  where'd he say that?  point to the speech?

People have actually dug out various remarks made by Bush or members of his administration, or widely-read collaborators in the MSM who quoted "government sources" or "administration officials" and were allowed to stand uncontradicted by the very government they were allegedly quoting.  The one that stands out most in my memory was Condoleeza Rice's "We can't afford to wait till the smoking gun [the evidence allegedly required to justify the invasion] becomes a mushroom cloud."  These sentences are invariably then parsed meticulously as if they were ancient hieroglyphics in need of interpretation and absurd issues arise:  "She didn't say it would be a mushroom cloud over America" and stuff like that.

I prefer to go by my own recollections of the events of the time.  It isn't that long ago and I think most people remember it the same way.  If a few conservatives don't, then we just have to agree to disagree.  But what I recall is a constant barrage of misinformation from the administration and the MSM that there was a huge danger in Iraq, WMD, they could be launched at any time, nobody could afford to wait, and because of that, the invasion had to be launched.  Now if anyone remembers it differently, good luck and God bless.  Believe what you want, but my argument is addressed to those who recall more or less the same events as I do.  And I feel most people recall it that way, which is why most people think Bush lied to them.

sirs

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 12:39:12 PM »
Putting aside for the moment Tee's twisted recollection of the past, as some form of validation to the lies about Bush lies, if they (Bush lied us into war garbage) had any substance to it at all, Democrat politicans would be POUNDING him with it. Anytime a Politician is caught with his pants down in a lie, they are routinely hammered.  And with it being the President, the entire party could be hammered 24/7.

But no, you don't get that, because it isn't there.  What you get are the frothing at the mouth constituency that keep repeating the lie, then try to rationalize why their party members don't follow suit.  We'll just have to chalk that up again to their chronic form of BDS, where they simply don't know better.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2007, 12:28:44 AM »
<<Putting aside for the moment Tee's twisted recollection of the past, as some form of validation to the lies about Bush lies . . . >>

Please.  I told you as honestly as I could my recollections of the public debate leading up to the invasion.  If you recall a different debate, let me know.  It probably wouldn't change what I recall (although it's possible it might jog a forgotten memory back into existence) but I'd be interested to know if anyone remembers it any differently than I do, because I think I've got a pretty good general idea of what was going on in the MSM about this topic at the time.

<< if they (Bush lied us into war garbage) had any substance to it at all, Democrat politicans would be POUNDING him with it.>>

In case you didn't notice, I began this thread with two questions, not with a statement.  I wondered if they were afraid to call him a liar and I think the answer is obviously yes.  That question was really rhetorical.    I also wondered WHY  they would be afraid.  Your statement belabours the obvious - - if he lied (and I think he did) then  WHY DON'T  they pound him with that?  Legitimate question.  Good question.

You seem to be taking the failure to nail Bush as proof that he didn't lie.  But I am coming at this from the opposite direction.  I know for  a fact that he lied - - it's obvious for all the reasons I put up so many times in this forum before.  The second question I asked is far from rhetorical - - why (given not only that Bush lied, but that it's OBVIOUS that he did so, and that most people in fact KNOW that he did so) are the mainstream Democrats so reluctant to nail him relentlessly with his own lie?  I can think of at least four possible reasons for that.

Plane

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2007, 03:25:01 AM »
This is a good question but the answer s simple , the canadates do not need to call Bush a liar , there are plenty of people who will suffer no politcal damage from it doing so.


I think your next move is to say, where?  where'd he say that?  point to the speech?

.............quoted "government sources" or "administration officials" and were allowed to stand uncontradicted by the very government they were allegedly quoting. 
..............and stuff like that.



So you get the concept , the canadate doesn't have to make the accusation to benefit from the accusation.


Quote
I know for  a fact that he lied ..........

It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so.
Will Rogers

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/w/will_rogers.html

Michael Tee

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2007, 10:28:03 AM »
<<This is a good question but the answer s simple , the canadates do not need to call Bush a liar , there are plenty of people who will suffer no politcal damage from it doing so.>>

I just don't see the "political damage" - - the people who would resent Bush being called a liar probably wouldn't vote for the anti-war candidate anyway and the potential anti-war voters would have to be turned off by the cowardice of any candidate who could and should call Bush a liar but doesn't.

Plane

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2007, 04:54:26 AM »
<<This is a good question but the answer s simple , the canadates do not need to call Bush a liar , there are plenty of people who will suffer no politcal damage from it doing so.>>

I just don't see the "political damage" - - the people who would resent Bush being called a liar probably wouldn't vote for the anti-war candidate anyway and the potential anti-war voters would have to be turned off by the cowardice of any candidate who could and should call Bush a liar but doesn't.


Imagine this.......


Senator you have just accused George Bush of being a liar?

Yes I have!

What lie in particlar do you mean?

Ummmmmm.....
He claimed to have caught a seven pound fish from his pond on is ranch , I find this to be very unlikely.

[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][[][][][][]


Oh yes, there are plenty of people who are not running for president calling him a liar , butsomeone who was running for president would have to justify the statement , so you shouldn't exect it.

Michael Tee

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Re: Are Democrats Afraid to Call Bush a Liar and If So, Why?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2007, 11:04:48 AM »
plane, are you saying that there is no answer to the question, "What lie do you claim Bush told?"

or are you saying that the explanation, as I have provided it, is too complicated to be given in the fifteen-second soundbite format of MSM Q&A?