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Define means of production.
Means of ProductionThe tools (instruments) and the raw material (subject) you use to create something are the means of production.If we examine the whole process from the point of view of its result, the product, it is plain that both the instruments and the subject of labour, are means of production, and that the labour itself is productive labour.Karl Marx
And? Are you selecting bits and pieces now?
Quote from: Plane on August 27, 2008, 08:53:29 PMQuote from: _JS on August 27, 2008, 12:28:31 PMAnd Bt...your point is what? That you are bourgeoisie? Is that somehow surprising?Either I am dense (completely possible) or you two have yet to make a clear point. Class is determined by one's relationship to the means of production and the surplus labor of others.So yes, Steve Jobs is a member of the bourgeoisie. The person running a company of plumbers is too. The person managing a Wal-Mart is as well. You two seem to be really hung up on the literal tools. No, owning a trowel does not determine your class, nor does owning your own machine shop.Finally !By this rather strange and narrow definition ,there is no class distinction in the United States. People who are born to wealth can easily determine what their relationship will be to productive capacity , but persons without wealth can earn any relationship they want as well , luck is heavyly involved , but not as much as talent.Oh dear lord I don't really believe you're that thick Plane. But the act gets tiresome after a while.
Quote from: _JS on August 27, 2008, 12:28:31 PMAnd Bt...your point is what? That you are bourgeoisie? Is that somehow surprising?Either I am dense (completely possible) or you two have yet to make a clear point. Class is determined by one's relationship to the means of production and the surplus labor of others.So yes, Steve Jobs is a member of the bourgeoisie. The person running a company of plumbers is too. The person managing a Wal-Mart is as well. You two seem to be really hung up on the literal tools. No, owning a trowel does not determine your class, nor does owning your own machine shop.Finally !By this rather strange and narrow definition ,there is no class distinction in the United States. People who are born to wealth can easily determine what their relationship will be to productive capacity , but persons without wealth can earn any relationship they want as well , luck is heavyly involved , but not as much as talent.
And Bt...your point is what? That you are bourgeoisie? Is that somehow surprising?Either I am dense (completely possible) or you two have yet to make a clear point. Class is determined by one's relationship to the means of production and the surplus labor of others.So yes, Steve Jobs is a member of the bourgeoisie. The person running a company of plumbers is too. The person managing a Wal-Mart is as well. You two seem to be really hung up on the literal tools. No, owning a trowel does not determine your class, nor does owning your own machine shop.