DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: BSB on January 30, 2013, 02:59:17 PM
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First capitulation: Immigration
Senators Call Their Bipartisan Immigration Plan a ‘Breakthrough’
By ASHLEY PARKER
Published: January 28, 2013
WASHINGTON — A bipartisan group of senators unveiled on Monday a set of principles for comprehensive immigration legislation that includes a pathway to citizenship for the 11 million immigrants already in the country illegally, contingent on first securing the nation’s borders.
http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx/-/www~google~com/url?q=http%3A//www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/politics/senators-unveil-bipartisan-immigration-principles.html&sa=U&ei=22gJUc-aEuuvigL7mYCgCw&ved=0CCcQFjAE&usg=AFQjCNFBlFCmDGWSvU43jj-cxUCetqjasA (http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx/-/www~google~com/url?q=http%3A//www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/us/politics/senators-unveil-bipartisan-immigration-principles.html&sa=U&ei=22gJUc-aEuuvigL7mYCgCw&ved=0CCcQFjAE&usg=AFQjCNFBlFCmDGWSvU43jj-cxUCetqjasA)
BSB
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The Left wishes
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Sounds like the Bush Plan
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Indeed.....just goes to show you again how not far right wing he supposedly was
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"just goes to show you again how not far right wing he supposedly was"
Ahh, so this is a capitulation by the right then.
BSB
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LOL....the Left wishes
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Make no mistake about it the right was pro the strictest immigration laws passable. Even John McCain knuckled under to the rights pressure. Now though the right is running scared because they've completely lost the Latino vote.
The right can't wave enough white flags fast enough.
2010 "PHOENIX — When Senator John McCain broke his silence Monday on his home state’s tough, new immigration enforcement bill, some immigrant advocates wished he had kept quiet and worried that he was backpedaling on what had been one of his signature bipartisan issues.
Perhaps more than anything these days, though, Senator McCain’s decision to endorse the measure as a “good tool” signals the rightward tilt of his party and his re-election battle with a conservative primary challenger."
http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx/-/www~google~com/url?q=http%3A//thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/mccains-tough-stance-on-arizona-immigration-bill/&sa=U&ei=LpUJUYXhA4WuiQLJy4H4Bg&ved=0CBsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGmGFA0z_X4zzD2Gno_qhqKwg8KNA (http://www.skweezer.com/s.aspx/-/www~google~com/url?q=http%3A//thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/20/mccains-tough-stance-on-arizona-immigration-bill/&sa=U&ei=LpUJUYXhA4WuiQLJy4H4Bg&ved=0CBsQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGmGFA0z_X4zzD2Gno_qhqKwg8KNA)
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Good Lord......John McCain?? He may be Republican, but he's left of Bush who wasn't this far right zealot either. :o
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We will NEVER elect a "far right zealot" as president.
Nor should we.
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We will NEVER elect a "far right zealot" as president.
Yet that's what the left kept calling Bush all those years. Were you all lying then, or lying now?
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The fact remains that Bush had the right policy back then and the party is coming around to it. There is little chance that the federal government will ever do a mass roundup of illegals and pack them up for deportation. That is just dreamcasting. The best they can do is push for stronger border control, more efficient visa tracking and tighter control on welfare fraud. The ones here will stay, absent a criminal record, and the right needs to accept that. The establicans already have.
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I would disagree with "the right policy", but I would agree that the system needs reformed. I agreed with Universeprince, back when he referenced how ridiculously long, complicated, and political our current system of becoming a legal citizen is. I'm all for reforming and streamlining it.
Before 1 illegal immigrant becomes a citizen 1st and foremost, we begin enforcing not just the border, but current immigration law. Can you believe, IIRC, we're the only country on this planet that allows such easy access into this country, and its system. Every other country not only has strict border enforcement, but many have armed guards that will shoot anyone trying to get in.
I'm not advocating shooting anyone, but stop with this ongoing allowance of rewarding lawbreakers while throwing those who try to do it legally under the proverbial bus. Let's fix and streamline the system, but NO to rewarding the lawbreakers that currently are in this country. Everytime I hear the reference that they will go "to the end of the line", I have to ask, where is that exactly?? It's easy to say so, quite a different mode in explaining where exactly is that.
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I don't think immigration is the premier problem facing the country so don't get caught up in the flame throwing that is designed solely to get your goad.
Kitchen table issues like fiscal responsibility are more important than this little hill. Remember immigration laws are relatively new.
Or protecting the constitution from all those who say that it is just a piece of paper and it isn't relevant any more.
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I hope they do not go as far as Reagan did , Reagan proposed an amnesty and called it an amnesty.
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I don't think immigration is the premier problem facing the country so don't get caught up in the flame throwing that is designed solely to get your goad.
I appreciate the suggestion. I agree its not the premier problem, nor is gun violence, which both seem to be at the top of the Democrats' agenda. I also realize the political reasons why both are at the top of their agenda.......votes, and a goal of trying to trash Republicans as again supposeldy anti-immigrant and pro-gun violence
And with the help of the MSM, they might even get their way
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I don't think it is that hopeless. I just don't think the the American Public is stupid enough to buy all the propaganda spring forth from the likes of Steve Kroftt and that 60 minutes ad he did for the current President and a likely candidate for the 2016 race. I wonder if the FEC will check to make sure that Obama lists that show as an in kind donation on his campaign disclosures.
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They bought it in Nov, in the face of overwhelming economic & foreign policy facts. But I'll try to stay optimistic :-\
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"Kitchen table issues like fiscal responsibility are more important than this little hill. Remember immigration laws are relatively new"
Ah huh, and everything's fine on main street is it?
If you have an interest in who's in the White House you better pay attention to immigration because no one is going to sit in the oval office without the Latino vote. And they vote by how you view immigration.
BSB
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How many generations do immagrants remain loyal to the old country?
Only a few of us are not decendants of immagrants, Latinos will want to shut the door also, when they also feel the draft.
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Every election has it's favorite interest group that the pols cater to with last minute declarations in order to win elections. Did Obama finally coming out in favor of gay marriage convince one state to change it's laws? Did the declaration just prior to the elction that he wouldn't deport any dream act constituents change long established INS practice?
What did he do for blacks, i forget, was being historic enough?
Nah Romney ran a lousy campaign. He got smug and it showed.
Do hispanics want special status or do they simply want the chance to earn a better life.
I think the latter.
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If you don't get the Latino vote you don't get elected. That's what this bipartisanship regarding immigration by the Republicans is all about.
Catch up BT. You're lost in the woods along with Sirs.
BSB
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Catch up? I'm two steps ahead of you.
These are no longer the days of tammany hall.
Let's see what happens when the black caucus interests conflict with the hispanic caucus interests.
Que pasa, bro?
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Let's see what happens when the black caucus interests conflict with the hispanic caucus interests.
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I doubt that this will happen, since nearly all their interests are identical.
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BT, you took a math course at some point?
Presidential nominee - Latino vote = looking for a private sector job.
BSB
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I doubt that this will happen, since nearly all their interests are identical.
Are they?
What interests do they have in common that seperates them from say, new england lobstermen?
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Bush got 35 and 40% of the latino vote when he ran.
Romney just didn't appeal to them.
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Let's see what happens when the black caucus interests conflict with the hispanic caucus interests.
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I doubt that this will happen, since nearly all their interests are identical.
If they want the same thing , and there isn't enough to go around , that is a conflict.
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What interests do they have in common that seperates them from say, new england lobstermen?
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They are not White, they are not in an occupation that has been passed down for generations, and they do not eat much lobster or live in New England.
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"Bush got 35 and 40% of the Latino vote when he ran.
Romney just didn't appeal to them. "
And Bush got elected and Romney did not. So the Republican party is now currying favor with the Latino community by changing its position on immigration. Simple as that.
BSB
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I think that it is pretty clear that the composition of the Hispanic community (and the rest of the immigrant community as well) has changed since 2000. Many of the older members have died, many younger immigrants have come of age and many more recent immigrants have started to participate in the political process. Poor Romney could not get even a majority of the Cuban vote in Florida. Of course, Romney is very similar to the grotesquely rich elites that have run countries like El Salvador, Venezuela, Argentina and Chile.
They sucked up all the money and resources there were to suck up and caused the unending poverty of these countries.
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Well bless their favor currying little hearts, but if the immigration policies of Reagan and Bush are that much different than Rubio's i don't see it, so to claim they are changing course somehow just doesn't ring true.