Author Topic: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary  (Read 3787 times)

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sirs

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2007, 01:08:47 PM »
The consensus view -- and I will say the objective one, in hindsight or otherwwise -- is that the Iraq War was "optional" and unnnecessary, and yet remains subject to alternate resolution, perhaps, with the only obstacle being a myopic president with a limited worldview and an even more limited array of intellectual tools to forge his way out. 

While another, equally objective, and dare I say, rational theory, is that given the circumstances at the time the decisions were made to go into Iraq, that the war was a last resort, and unfortunately a necessary one, with a President that actually understood the big picture, and long term ramifications if Militant Islam were allowed to metastasize completely unchecked.  In the latter scenario, he demonstrated leadership and a grasp of the global threat we face, that very few others understood as well, with Tony Blair being another of those few World leaders that understood the threat.

That said, the Professor (& Bt on several occasions) have referenced the prescious little attention span modern America has devolped.  The "I want it now" mindset permeates this country, and despite Domer's attempt to blame Bush on that as well, has been developing for several decades now, manifesting itself in its current inpatient configuration, as is likely the greatest obstacle to our being able to deal with militant Islam, in the only way it can be dealt with.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2007, 01:58:58 PM »
The Professor makes a very good point, but one that needs elaboration. A nation starved and steel-tempered for hardship as we were for World War II, for example, has a much greater capacity for the rigors of war then a nation complacent in its self-indulgent culture, where comfort matters much more than sacrifice. Partly, today's self-indulgent me-ism was allowed to reign unchecked by a president who refused to burden his political message (but why: his popularity tanked anyhow?) with calls for shared sacrifice. Beyond that, however, and much more fundamentally, the threshold was not even reached for Iraq to establish an ethic of sacrifice. The consensus view -- and I will say the objective one, in hindsight or otherwwise -- is that the Iraq War was "optional" and unnnecessary, and yet remains subject to alternate resolution, perhaps, with the only obstacle being a myopic president with a limited worldview and an even more limited array of intellectual tools to forge his way out. 

It was optional in the sense that there were better options , what were they?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2007, 02:11:42 PM by Plane »

sirs

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2007, 02:10:19 PM »
It was opional in the sense that there ere better options , what were they?

I think many would have wanted us to just sit on our hands, let the inspectors be led around for another 12+years, and pray to God that Saddam didn't sell off any of the WMD that nearly everyone had concluded he had, to terrorist folks like AlQeada, who Iraq did have both direct & indirect ties with

And that was an option that would have been wholly unacceptable to me, from my President, following the events of 911
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

domer

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2007, 05:32:33 PM »
Gentlemen, though I think the truth of my observations ring out like a clarion call, to those who do not yet see clearly I refer you to the age-old test of time -- which will be provided by human being historians without a ounce of fealty to George W. Bush, only to the truth.

sirs

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2007, 05:39:18 PM »
To which I can whole heartedly agree with, as it relates to ultimately history will provide us the more accurate portrayal of Bush & the Iraqi war.  Again, I wouldn't be surprised if Historians reference Bush to the Iraqis as Lincoln was to the blacks
« Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 07:59:49 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2007, 08:50:43 AM »
Gentlemen, though I think the truth of my observations ring out like a clarion call, to those who do not yet see clearly I refer you to the age-old test of time -- which will be provided by human being historians without a ounce of fealty to George W. Bush, only to the truth.


Can you continue to consider a war against the Saddam Husein
regime "optional" if you cannot expound on the other options?

domer

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2007, 05:30:26 PM »
Let me make a wild stab at this one, Plane: simply not invading at all?

sirs

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2007, 05:42:18 PM »
Let me make a wild stab at this one, Plane: simply not invading at all?

I think that qualifies as the option I was earlier alluding to as well, that so many would have (IMHO) irresponsibly have had us follow.  Sit and pray, basically     :-\
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2007, 07:50:14 PM »
Let me make a wild stab at this one, Plane: simply not invading at all?


Why should that be a better option?

If Saddam were still under our thumb , he would be quiet and co-operative?

sirs

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2007, 12:56:15 AM »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: An Ugly Face, Though Necessary
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2007, 12:59:14 AM »
Rangel's Pork Defense   [Kathryn Jean Lopez]



More from Meet the Press this morning:
Tim Russert: The House voted for funding for the war with a date certain, March of ’08, to begin a withdrawal of U.S. troops. But in that bill was $20 billion of so-called pork: money for cricket infestation, tours of the capitol, security at the national convention, peanut crops. Why would the Democrats put that kind of money in such a serious bill?

Rep. Charlie Rangel: Because they needed the votes. That bill, we lost so many Democrats, one, because people thought we went too far and other's because we didn't go far enough. So a lot of things had to go into a bill that certainly those of us who respect great legislation did not want in there…And I didn't care what was in that bill if there was anything to slow down, to say what the American people said in the last election, ‘get out of Iraq.’”

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