Author Topic: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul  (Read 1146 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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    Is the controversy over building a mosque near ground zero a grand distraction or a grand opportunity? Or is it, once again, grandiose demagoguery?

    It has been said, “Nero fiddled while Rome burned.” Are we not overly preoccupied with this controversy, now being used in various ways by grandstanding politicians? It looks to me like the politicians are “fiddling while the economy burns.”

    The debate should have provided the conservative defenders of property rights with a perfect example of how the right to own property also protects the 1st Amendment rights of assembly and religion by supporting the building of the mosque.

    Instead, we hear lip service given to the property rights position while demanding that the need to be “sensitive” requires an all-out assault on the building of a mosque, several blocks from “ground zero.”

    Just think of what might (not) have happened if the whole issue had been ignored and the national debate stuck with war, peace, and prosperity. There certainly would have been a lot less emotionalism on both sides. The fact that so much attention has been given the mosque debate, raises the question of just why and driven by whom?

    In my opinion it has come from the neo-conservatives who demand continual war in the Middle East and Central Asia and are compelled to constantly justify it.

    They never miss a chance to use hatred toward Muslims to rally support for the ill conceived preventative wars. A select quote from soldiers from in Afghanistan and Iraq expressing concern over the mosque is pure propaganda and an affront to their bravery and sacrifice.

    The claim is that we are in the Middle East to protect our liberties is misleading. To continue this charade, millions of Muslims are indicted and we are obligated to rescue them from their religious and political leaders. And, we’re supposed to believe that abusing our liberties here at home and pursuing unconstitutional wars overseas will solve our problems.

    The nineteen suicide bombers didn’t come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iran. Fifteen came from our ally Saudi Arabia, a country that harbors strong American resentment, yet we invade and occupy Iraq where no al Qaeda existed prior to 9/11.

    Many fellow conservatives say they understand the property rights and 1st Amendment issues and don’t want a legal ban on building the mosque. They just want everybody to be “sensitive” and force, through public pressure, cancellation of the mosque construction.

    This sentiment seems to confirm that Islam itself is to be made the issue, and radical religious Islamic views were the only reasons for 9/11. If it became known that 9/11 resulted in part from a desire to retaliate against what many Muslims saw as American aggression and occupation, the need to demonize Islam would be difficult if not impossible.

    There is no doubt that a small portion of radical, angry Islamists do want to kill us but the question remains, what exactly motivates this hatred?

    If Islam is further discredited by making the building of the mosque the issue, then the false justification for our wars in the Middle East will continue to be acceptable.

    The justification to ban the mosque is no more rational than banning a soccer field in the same place because all the suicide bombers loved to play soccer.

    Conservatives are once again, unfortunately, failing to defend private property rights, a policy we claim to cherish. In addition conservatives missed a chance to challenge the hypocrisy of the left which now claims they defend property rights of Muslims, yet rarely if ever, the property rights of American private businesses.

    Defending the controversial use of property should be no more difficult than defending the 1st Amendment principle of defending controversial speech. But many conservatives and liberals do not want to diminish the hatred for Islam–the driving emotion that keeps us in the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia.

    It is repeatedly said that 64% of the people, after listening to the political demagogues, don’t want the mosque to be built. What would we do if 75% of the people insist that no more Catholic churches be built in New York City? The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty.

    The outcry over the building of the mosque, near ground zero, implies that Islam alone was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. According to those who are condemning the building of the mosque, the nineteen suicide terrorists on 9/11 spoke for all Muslims. This is like blaming all Christians for the wars of aggression and occupation because some Christians supported the neo-conservatives’ aggressive wars.

    The House Speaker is now treading on a slippery slope by demanding a Congressional investigation to find out just who is funding the mosque—a bold rejection of property rights, 1st Amendment rights, and the Rule of Law—in order to look tough against Islam.

    This is all about hate and Islamaphobia.

    We now have an epidemic of “sunshine patriots” on both the right and the left who are all for freedom, as long as there’s no controversy and nobody is offended.

    Political demagoguery rules when truth and liberty are ignored.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2010, 10:19:39 PM »
Thought you didn't like Ron Paul.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2010, 10:21:12 PM »
...and 2 is not "several blocks"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2010, 10:26:20 PM »
2 blocks away is not at ground zero, it is 2 blocks away.

Ron Paul is right about one thing. This issue will be hijacked and manipulated by anyone who thinks they and or their agenda can gain by that hijacking. And i'm not a big fan of Ron Paul.


sirs

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2010, 10:32:39 PM »
And as already stated before, the destruction was over an area far greater than 2 blocks.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2010, 10:35:03 PM »
Quote
And as already stated before, the destruction was over an area far greater than 2 blocks.
So?

sirs

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2010, 11:15:49 PM »
Merely stating a fact
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2010, 11:36:41 PM »
Quote
Merely stating a fact

How much greater than two blocks was the area of damage?


Kramer

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2010, 11:50:40 PM »
Quote
Merely stating a fact

How much greater than two blocks was the area of damage?



how about the exact place where the intended mosque location is where the front landing gear ended up!

BT

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 12:12:19 AM »
Quote
how about the exact place where the intended mosque location is where the front landing gear ended up!

That wouldn't be greater than 2 blocks that would simply be two blocks.

Kramer

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 02:05:10 AM »
Quote
how about the exact place where the intended mosque location is where the front landing gear ended up!

That wouldn't be greater than 2 blocks that would simply be two blocks.

It went through the roof of the Burlington Coat Factory. Formerly Burlington Coat Factory because it isn't around anymore.

BT

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 02:08:13 AM »
Yeah now it's a Mosque, been one for a year already.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 02:54:46 AM »
I am not terribly fond of Ron Paul, but he is right about the mosque issue.

It is not required that I agree with everything a person says to agree with something he says.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Kramer

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 11:33:22 AM »
I am not terribly fond of Ron Paul, but he is right about the mosque issue.

It is not required that I agree with everything a person says to agree with something he says.

I am not fond of you but I agree with SIRS when he silently thinks you are an asshole.

sirs

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Re: Political demogogery rules when truth and liberty are ignored: Ron Paul
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 11:36:21 AM »
I wouldn't say that.  Liberal arrogance & ignorance aplenty perhaps, but I'll leave the more egregious personal attacks to those who want to fester in them
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle