Author Topic: Common sense  (Read 2564 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2007, 03:24:00 PM »
Israel is about as reigned in as it can be and continue to exist.

This is total bullsh*t. Israel has not been reined in at all. They continue to hold land seized after 1967, they have refused to allow Palestinians to return to their homes for fifty years, and they continue to grant their Arab citizens fewer rights than they do the Jewish ones.

You have been brainwashed by Zionist propaganda.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2007, 12:28:20 PM »
Israel is about as reigned in as it can be and continue to exist.

This is total bullsh*t. Israel has not been reined in at all. They continue to hold land seized after 1967, they have refused to allow Palestinians to return to their homes for fifty years, and they continue to grant their Arab citizens fewer rights than they do the Jewish ones.

You have been brainwashed by Zionist propaganda.

They have captured and released more land than that , almost every time that one side or the other was making some progress twards decisive victory in these questions the outside interests like the USA or USSR or others wouod step in and prevent the decisive blow.

The Palestinians havent realised yet that there is no military or paramilitary move that can actually succdeed because there is a trump card to be played only when the chips are down , this may be true in reverse too.

The_Professor

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2007, 12:46:02 PM »
Never use one word when fifteen will do?

It all depends on whether one fancies Nathaniel Hawthorne or Hemingway.

It's just gobbledee-gook to make lawyers seem more knowledgeable. I see it in academia all the time, too. Compensates for less brain power. It's called the Fluff Effect. :-)
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_JS

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2007, 01:43:45 PM »
Iraq and Afghanistan have little to do with pre-emptive strikes and just war theory.

They are what they are, wars of imperialism. This is about American and western hegemony in a region where our influence has historically been weak since the 1979 overthrow of the Shah of Iran.

There is no "victory" in either country. Hell, find someone who can even describe what "victory" looks like in detail (get them to discuss the different sectarian factions in each country). If you have friends or family who are officers (even enlisted personnel) in the U.S. Army you'll quickly learn the overall picture of the war. We're talking about projected twenty year deployment cycles, Second Luey's fresh out of school running companies (typically the assignment of a Captain). We still use one of the world's least soldier friendly rifle. Soldiers still pick up and use AK-47's found on insurgents for Pete's sake!

The problem is twofold. 1) guerilla warfare is much more advanced and destructive than it once was. I.E.D's are simple to make, but can be very advanced. They can be hidden easily and set off remotely, using mobile phones or two-way radios. But the old ways of fighting guerilla war still have the same devestating effects on morale. Soldiers get bored. Things become routine. That's when they don't notice that something is different - maybe something is just out of place, or the people seem more tense than usual. 2.) There are really only a few ways to overcome the disparate factions of the insurgency.

1. Absolute brutality. We own up to our imperial stance and use the tactics of the Belgians in the Congo, Britain in Iraq, or Stalin in the -stani states. In this scenario it is always shoot first and ask questions later. More than that, if a village spawns insurrection, then the entire village goes down. We need a lot of special ops forces for this. No conscience and some racism helps.

2. Show of force, mixed with as little of #1 as you have to use. This is more of the Franco-style dictatorship. No street in the entire country goes without the presence of soldiers carrying machineguns. Laws are absolute and each soldier acts as policeman. Courts are all military. Petty crimes are judged by soldiers in the field, no questions asked. We need 400K to 500K troops for this. It helps to have one enemy for the people to rally against. Franco had the Basque, PKK might work?

The benefit to #1 is that you don't need as many soldiers because you don't care about civilian casualties. In fact, you do care about civilian casualties - but you want more to show just how ruthless you are. Use some poison gas (the British did!) and all you need is some air power. Use artillery pieces too. #2 requires extra troops and a lot of fascist-style flag waving and such. The benefit is that you'll show the people how law and order is done at the barrel of a gun.

Of course all this time you probably should be building a few hospitals and schools for the chosen faction that will lead the country after you're gone. I mean, someone needs to praise the effort. Otherwise, what is the point?

If none of this appeals then I suggest these ventures were a massive mistake from the beginning and you are fighting two wars with one hand tied around your gonads.
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The_Professor

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 02:26:57 PM »
Afghanistan was necessary due to 9-11. An eye for an eye and all that. The Taliban simply had to go. Of course, after that, things get stickier...In fact, had I been "king",  I would have punished the Taliban in greater measure, but that is another story for another day.

Ask the typcial American not what he/she thinks about the justification for Afghanistan and I bet you their response is a lot more positive than the same quesiton re: Iraq. Afghanistan, e.g. the removal of the Taliban, was necessary. Is/was Iraq's conflict necessary? Murkier...
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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

gipper

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2007, 04:52:30 PM »
To the "professor": It's called thinking and expressing, both of which I am consummately more skilled at than you. Try me.

Plane

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2007, 04:56:06 PM »
To the "professor": It's called thinking and expressing, both of which I am consummately more skilled at than you. Try me.


Did you know that you are both professional users of Logic?

The_Professor

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2007, 05:18:38 PM »
To the "professor": It's called thinking and expressing, both of which I am consummately more skilled at than you. Try me.
Nice bit of bovine excrement there, Gip.
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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

gipper

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2007, 05:20:17 PM »
Well thought out and eloquent.

The_Professor

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Re: Common sense
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2007, 05:21:13 PM »
You are certainly welcome!
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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D