Author Topic: question about death penalty  (Read 3169 times)

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hnumpah

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2008, 03:46:11 PM »
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The point I was trying to make...


The point I was trying to make was a response to Kimba's post, not yours.
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kimba1

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2008, 04:04:13 PM »
but were the people sad or happy to see the execution?
I not saying executions will encourage murders anymore than porn causes rape.
but to say it doesn`t have any effect is another matter.
I know a guy who liked alot porn.
lets just say he got kicked out of alot of churches
people having fun  seeing executions may likely be people who don`t mix well with the general public.
p.s. how do you know you`ve seen too much porn.
when you don`t like playboy and every damn talk leads to porn.
I avoid that guy.


hnumpah

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2008, 08:45:40 PM »
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but were the people sad or happy to see the execution?

It was like going to the county fair. Ever see one of those westerns where people come from miles around to see a hanging? The crowd was a bit more somber, maybe, but they did enjoy letting foreigners get up front for a close-up view.

You knew when it was over that was one criminal that was never, ever going to get a chance to commit his particular crime ever again.

As for comment that 'I doubt that the Saudis actually keep records of the murder rate', I don't see why they wouldn't, just like anyone else. They're not uneducated hicks, after all. I can tell you I read three in-country daily papers, one each from Riyadh, Jeddah and Dhahran, and murder was very rarely mentioned. I felt perfectly safe walking the streets of any of the cities there at any time, day or night. As I said before, the biggest crime I saw reported was contract workers forging their papers to stay in-country longer.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2008, 11:20:00 AM »
As for comment that 'I doubt that the Saudis actually keep records of the murder rate', I don't see why they wouldn't, just like anyone else. They're not uneducated hicks, after all.

===================================================
I was thinking more along the lines of Saudi Arabia being (a) an absolute monarchy, in which the press is very likely tightly controlled, and (b) a major tourist destination, during Haji month.

Do those stories of pilgrims being trampled every year in the pilgrimage get into the Saudi press or media?

I suppose if you don't read or speak Arabic, you would not know this.

I hear stories of tramplings every year, but they never seem to have any tv footage.

I imagine that Disney would prefer that Tigger mauling tourists, or cute little girls being flung screaming off Space Mountain (if these events were to happen) not make it into the press or on the tube.

(What a YouTube that would make!)

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hnumpah

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2008, 03:51:25 PM »
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I was thinking more along the lines of Saudi Arabia being (a) an absolute monarchy, in which the press is very likely tightly controlled, and (b) a major tourist destination, during Haji month.

KSA is not a major tourist attraction for anyone actually; they issue very few tourist visas, if any, and the Haj is not a tourist event, it is a pilgrimage.

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Do those stories of pilgrims being trampled every year in the pilgrimage get into the Saudi press or media?

I suppose if you don't read or speak Arabic, you would not know this.

Yes, they do. There are warnings before the Haj to try to prevent the tramplings, and they do get reported in the Saudi papers.

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I hear stories of tramplings every year, but they never seem to have any tv footage.

That is probably because the Haj generally focuses around Mecca, a city that is normally closed to non-Muslims, including reporters. The footage I have seen if it has come from Arabic television stations.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2008, 04:28:40 PM »
A pilgrimage is simply a religion-based tourist event. Saudi Arabia in general and Mecca and Medina must profit enormously from the annual Haj. I am sure that they are far less mercenary than Micky Mouse & Co., but still...

I would think that if images of hajis trampling one another are on Saudi TV, they could easily be recorded for the ABC/NBC/CBS/ CNN /Faux News. But perhaps this doesn;t happen because westerners don't give a hang about the Haj, in the same way that Greenlanders are unexcited about the NFL.

I do appreciate your comments on this. I plan to see much of the world, but I fear I am unlikely to visit Saudi Arabia. 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Henny

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2008, 04:46:24 PM »
A pilgrimage is simply a religion-based tourist event. Saudi Arabia in general and Mecca and Medina must profit enormously from the annual Haj. I am sure that they are far less mercenary than Micky Mouse & Co., but still...

I would think that if images of hajis trampling one another are on Saudi TV, they could easily be recorded for the ABC/NBC/CBS/ CNN /Faux News. But perhaps this doesn;t happen because westerners don't give a hang about the Haj, in the same way that Greenlanders are unexcited about the NFL.

I do appreciate your comments on this. I plan to see much of the world, but I fear I am unlikely to visit Saudi Arabia. 

Interesting thing about Hajj and commercialism - Mohammed kind of worked it that way. Mecca was originally a place where people came from all over the world to trade, but they were all pagans. Then came Islam, but the people who went to Hajj were (and are) still allowed to trade/sell their wares. It's a tradition (but not a religious requirement, of course) that people who go to Hajj bring back gifts for the entire family.

And no, even if Saudi Arabia began to allow tourists... go to U.A.E. LOL.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2008, 05:13:49 PM »
Mecca was a site of religious pilgrimage even prior to Muhammad. In the Kaaba, there was a huge collection of graven images from all over the place. Symbolically, Muhammad removed and destroyed all but the Black Stone, that sort of symbolizes Allah in its imponderable oneness.

A clever political move, as this way, the merchants who feared people would no longer visit Mecca to se the gods, would still come in even greater numbers to do the Haj.

I have heard that the Emiris are far more jovial than the Saudis. I have met and made friends with people from both places, but this is what even they say.


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kimba1

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2008, 06:08:48 PM »
if I remember right muslims are exempt from going if it is a hardship.
In the past financial hardship just means no money
nowadays with credit cards and mortgage refinances.
are muslim now required to get into heavy debt now.
would other muslims pressure one to just charge it?

Henny

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2008, 07:58:21 PM »
if I remember right muslims are exempt from going if it is a hardship.
In the past financial hardship just means no money
nowadays with credit cards and mortgage refinances.
are muslim now required to get into heavy debt now.
would other muslims pressure one to just charge it?


Yes, they are exempt if it is a hardship, and I'm pretty sure that heavy debt is a hardship that should be avoided.

kimba1

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2008, 08:09:36 PM »
the current trend to get into heavy debt. is quite popular today.
so i wonder would poorer muslim be pressured to charge it.
remember even saying your broke is frowned upon today
I get lectures about my cheapness

Amianthus

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2008, 08:43:18 PM »
I get lectures about my cheapness

Move to Minnesota. I used to be lectured about my cheapness when I lived on the east coast. I'm positively a spendthrift compared to native Minnesotans.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

kimba1

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2008, 09:24:51 PM »
sounds like paradise
the majority of my purchases are from dollar stores and target
I`m too cheap to pay for the trip to walmart.
I don`t have cable and I vaction at el cerito,because of the free room and board I get there.
the truth is I don`t buy the cheapest item,I buy the 2nd or 3rd cheapest .
the theory is it has a better chance of actually working.
tip- never buy a can opener or mouse trap at a dollor store .
your just throwing money away.

Plane

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2008, 04:34:17 AM »
sounds like paradise
the majority of my purchases are from dollar stores and target
I`m too cheap to pay for the trip to walmart.
I don`t have cable and I vaction at el cerito,because of the free room and board I get there.
the truth is I don`t buy the cheapest item,I buy the 2nd or 3rd cheapest .
the theory is it has a better chance of actually working.
tip- never buy a can opener or mouse trap at a dollor store .
your just throwing money away.



Islam has diffrent conventios of debt than what we are used to.

http://www.soundvision.com/Info/life/credit.asp


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Abdullah ibn Hanjalah related that the Prophet said: A dirham of Riba (interest) knowingly taken by a man is a sin worse than committing Zina (fornication) 36 times (Ahmad, Daraqutni).


http://www.soundvision.com/Info/life/qandh.asp


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question about death penalty
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2008, 07:57:22 AM »
Credit cards and credit in general, are, of course, a form of slavery. Or better said, they can be.

There are good reasons for using them.
Airline tickets: if you pay cash and the airline goes broke before you fly somewhere or fly back, if you pay cash, you are screwed: you will have to stand in line (figuritively) for many months to be repaid. This will likely never happen, as airlines are used as cash cows by weenies like Carl Icahn (who bought TWA, diddled its employees and robbed its assets). If you use a debirt card, same thing.

If you buy something on e-bay or some mailorder merchant or have something repaired and the item is junk or never arrives or stays fixed, if you paid with a credit card, you can just sent the damned thing back and refuse to pay. I once bought a tank of gasoline (back when I bought gasoline) and it turned out to be water. I should have charged it, but instead I paid cash, and i took a long time for the convenience store to bill the supplier and the supplier to bill its insurance company.

Discovercard has a nasty habit of telling you the bill is due on the 4th, and you send payment when received, perhaps on the 20th, and then they tell you it didn't arrive until the 5th and you owe a $29.95 fee for late payment on a charge of $39, and they won't refund this.  I canceled my card, and every month they would call me and ask why and didn't I want it back. I told them, but apparently my explanation that they were shameless thieves and liars did not seem reasonable to them. The cards that are offered to you in special mail deals are far more likely to suck than the ones recommended by Kiplingers or Money magazines you have to apply for. Bank One is a particularly nasty bunch.

Modern business will not function well without credit. In 1950 Egypt was more prosperous than South Korea or Taiwan. Now both Taiwan and Korea have first world economies, and Egypt is a foul slum for most of its people. This is mostly due to the fact that Egypt is a Muslim country and credit is not used.

Islam is backward in its view of credit and will remain so until it chooses to ignore the prohibition against borrowing at interest. No one has any motive to lend money to a stranger than interest. Large ventures are difficult for even large families to finance.

Shiites, who believe in modifying the rules a bit, are more likely than Sunnis, who won't, in achieving economic development.

Christianity bans the charging of interest, by the way: it is a sin to lend money at interest, called usury.

I pay off all my cards by the day due, except in the rare occasion that the service or product was defective or not received.

If you get slapped with any fee, always call the company immediately, or they will mark you as a sucker and slap you with more fees.

If they tell you they are changing the terms of the credit card, pay them off and refuse to accept the new terms if they are not tolerable for you. Cut the damned thing up and mail the pieces back with a letter.

Check your credit reports  yearly with the three bureaus for free. Make sure that you have the FREE site (which won't tell you your credit score) and not the others who want to stick you for $19.95 a month for this.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."