DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on August 28, 2014, 11:12:05 PM
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http://www.aol.com/article/2014/08/27/lawsuit-to-release-michael-browns-juvenile-criminal-record/20953546/
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THat is not the issue.
The issue is that he was unarmed and shot dead in the street.
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That's a fact, but the issue is what led to that fact
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No, it did not.
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Perhaps it would be useful to examine the tragedy with the facts on the table rather than through the lenses of hypersensitized emotions stimulated by those attempting to exploit the situation.... Dr. Ben Carson
So, yea, it actually does
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No, it does not, and buy the way, go fuck your stupid self.
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Ooo, Professor potty mouth strikes again. Good thing I could care less what you say ;D
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If you did not care, then why did you feel obliged to post this?
You have already said the same thing dozens of times.
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THat is not the issue.
It could be a part of the issue.
Just like the policeman's past could be an issue.
If the Police Officer was a former Klansman it would be an issue.
So Michael Brown's past could be an issue as well.
If Michael Brown was a gang member with a violent past it could certainly shed light on his actions.
The issue is that he was unarmed and shot dead in the street.
An unarmed thug can still be very dangerous in certain circumstances.
I would not want an "unarmed" thug bashing my head into concrete.
That could lead to my death or serious injury.
I would feel obligated to shoot an unarmed thug that attacked me in a very violent manner.
I know you use the term "unarmed" to garner sympathy,
but unarmed means nothing if they can literally beat you senseless or beat you to death.
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If you are sitting in your Crown Vic with the motor running and the windows up, you are safe from thugs.
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If you did not care, then why did you feel obliged to post this?
Because, I see this as a debate forum, not a rant forum. As such, if I see a misguided opinion, I'm compelled to make a correction &/or highlight the error. A hopeful goal is to debate the "why". Whether the person being corrected is mature enough to deal with the criticism is not my concern. Others who may be reading or even just visiting, can check out the error as well
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If you are sitting in your Crown Vic with the motor running and the windows up, you are safe from thugs.
If you are sitting in a Crown Vic and attempt to get out and a thug
with a bad attitude that just committed a robbery assaults you through
the open door and wrestles for your gun you are not safe from thugs.
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You drive off, and use the radio to call for backup.
Unless you want a confrontation.
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Police officer's are trained not to drive away from possible criminal activity....quite the contrary, in fact
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What a lame, lame excuse.
Then tough shit, they end up in messes like this one. Police are supposed to be smart enough to assess the situation. This cop was not and did not. He did not protest he did not serve. As a result of his stupidity, stores were burned and looted and his community was disgraced. A cop is supposed to be smarter than some wiseguy teenager, if that is what Brown was,
The evidence that I see is that they call for backup all the time: I have seen up to SEVEN patrol cars surrounding someone under investigation at once.
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Considering "messes like this" rarely happen, given the millions of stops officers make across the country, and considering you weren't there to know precisely what this officer was confronted with, best to examine the tragedy with the facts on the table rather than through the lenses of hypersensitized emotions stimulated by those attempting to exploit the situation
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The cop was just stupid. He was a disservice to his force and to his community.
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If you are sitting in your Crown Vic with the motor running and the windows up, you are safe from thugs.
You are the chief of police, you have an officer that never gets out of his car until backup shows up.
Do you council him or just fire him?
You are the Chief of police in Ferguson, you know either information that exonerates your injured officer , or you know information that will very likely convict him, and you keep mum. That is the mystery. Neither of these makes sense, does the police chief not know how badly the officer is hurt?
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THat is not the issue.
The issue is that he was unarmed and shot dead in the street.
That isn't really an issue, either.
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The cop was just stupid. He was a disservice to his force and to his community.
We just do not know this, for all we know you are right , but just as likely this policeman made the best choice he could have.
Here is a speculative possibility, for which I have insufficient evidence to have confidence.
A policeman sees a pair of jaywalkers, they look very young, but nothing really strange about them, they fit in to the neighborhood and don't seem to be armed.
The policeman pulls near then and turns on his lights intending to tell them not to jaywalk and to help them get across the traffic to safety.
What the policeman did not know was that these two were involved in a crime earlier in that day, and worse these guys did not know that the policeman did not know.
Was one of these guys a tough that was accustomed to punching his way out of trouble? this would be interesting to know , but we do not know .
Did the guy surprise the policeman as he was getting out of the car? That is a vulnerable moment if it is a surprise.
So possibly , the unarmed guy tried to get the gun right off the hip of the policeman and shoot him with it , a thing that happens now and then.
In the fight that happens over the gun , anything can happen, including both of them being shot.
The nature and severity of the injuries on the officer might not reveal the truth, but it could be that they would.
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...............cops are killed by their own weapons (51) Since 2000
This is roughly ten percent of policemen fatally shot in the line of duty.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/11/robert-farago/washington-post-more-cops-killed-by-their-own-gun-than-straw-purchases/
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The cop was just stupid. He was a disservice to his force and to his community.
You weren't there....you have no idea if he acted stupid. He may have acted in the only way possible to defend himself. We won't know until all the FACTS are on the table vs this ongoing attempt in exploiting the situation through hyper-sensitized emotions
Notice how so many keep trying to lay blame on the officer. What could Brown have done differently?? What could he have done to still be alive today? One wonders just how reckless his actions were, that brought about such a tragic end
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The issue is that he was unarmed and shot dead in the street.
That isn't really an issue, either.
That's kinda what I was saying, as well (http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=18280.msg158800#msg158800) 8)
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The issue is that a cop shot a kid dead in the street and it caused a huge destruction of property.
The mission of the police is to protect and defend..
The mission was not fulfilled. Ferguson was thrown into a state of rebellion. The police were unable to protect or defend.
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The issue is that a cop shot a kid dead in the street and it caused a huge destruction of property.
The mission of the police is to protect and defend..
The mission was not fulfilled. Ferguson was thrown into a state of rebellion. The police were unable to protect or defend.
This is two issues and not necessarily connected ones.
Lets imagine something.
Some very convincing proof is found that the incident was entirely the policeman's fault, he will still be given a fair trial I hope then I further hope that he draws a penalty appropriate, life in prison or death if it is really egregious and unmitigated.
If so , what were the riots good for?
Imagine something different, Imagine that a real proof is found that the dead guy was totally at fault, well I don't hope he will get a fair trial or be punished worse , but in this case what were the riots accomplishing?
Time was that the KKK organized most serious rioting, those times were not better , were they?
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The issue is that a cop shot a kid dead in the street
No, the issue is the circumstances that brought that situation, to its end
and it caused a huge destruction of property.
RIOTS caused that, as pushed by the enablers, JJ, Sharpton, and yes, Obama. The officer did nothing to bring that on
The mission of the police is to protect and defend..
And they do the best damn job they can at that.
The mission was not fulfilled. Ferguson was thrown into a state of rebellion. The police were unable to protect or defend.
And one wonders just how much of that can be placed at the foot of Mr. Brown
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Sharpton did not arrive until AFTER the rioting, and he didn't tell anyone to riot.
The riots were caused by a cop making a poor decision.
He did not protect anyone.
He was not defending anyone.
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The riots were caused by a cop making a poor decision.
No.
This is exactly what we do not know.
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no matter what the truth is ferguson will suffer and nobody wins .
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Good point, Kimba
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No one will win much as a direct result of this. It is possible that it will cause residents of Ferguson to be more democratic and to participate more in the city government,both as voters and candidates.
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the problem is too many things are messed up there before this incident.
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the problem is too many things are messed up there before this incident.
Yes.
Placing the blame is what is definitely going to happen.
Making stuff better is an option.
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blame will just gum things up. good luck convincing those businesses the damages are worth overcoming to remain there. side note would the businesses that defended their property get problems from the community for such actions? L.A. had problems afterwards with those stores that defended their property.
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L.A. had problems afterwards with those stores that defended their property.
Really?
There is resentment for prevention of looting?
This can't be as bad as the problem of the stores just being absent.
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obviously less but the difference in l.a. is those store owners were Korean and the riot was the catalyst increase the tension between the races.
if the businesses that defended in ferguson had a history than things may get tough.
note you say defending from looting but that can also look like wiiling to shoot blacks . not saying true but the police there also can`t get folks to see things their way
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The Koreans tended to see things as tribal, and refused to treat their Black customers in the same way they treated other customers.
Once I went into a Black owned store in Liberty City, looking for some kitchen stuff, and this woman followed me around, asking "may I help you?" even after I told her what I was looking for. I told her I wanted some metal potscrubbers, and she kept asking the same question. I suppose she though it was payback for some previous incident where she had been harasses=d, but it was most annoying, and I fled without buying anything.
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as troublesome that maybe these types of business owners are the only ones willing set up shop in these areas. I once notice why asian seem to go to the worst parts of neighborhoods to live then realized compared to where my grandma live these places are easy to deal with. still dangerous as hell but more manageable.
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I think the idea that the Koreans have is that business is business. You buy stuff for 30ยข and sell it for $1.29 and you make money. The privately owned dollar stores (as opposed to the national brand stores like Dollar Tree) used to have some bargains, but most of them here sell crap at high prices. There is one in North Miami Beach that I visit every week, though that always has some bargains. Breakfast cereal for $1.59 that normally sells for $3.00. Lately, they have been selling a lot of wine at 4 bottles for $10, and some of it is fairly good.
I am no wine connoisseur, but my experience is that restaurant wine is uniformly both bad (as in it tastes like vinegar) and hideously overpriced. The only surefire never bad wine I have found is Argentine Malbec. Jewish sweet wine (Manischewicz, Mogan David, etc.) is also reliably sweet and makes great sangria, it you like sangria. It is better to buy sweet wine and not have to sweeten it than to buy dry wine and throw in a lot of sugar. At least that is the way I like it.
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the problem with dollar stores is they can only sell stuff they can get hands on super cheap. so quality can`t be a factor anymore. it`ll mostly stuff that don`t sell well in the main market. ex mango tang.
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There are several places that sell dollar store crap wholesale if you buy as little as $50.
Tang is awful in any flavor.
It never tasted anything like fruit juice to me.
There are some useful things in dollar stores, but you have to look at them carefully. I have bought mousetraps than would not work. Made In China, of course.
Chinese products can be very good or downright awful. It depends on the price the person ordering them was willing to pay. The very worst tool I bought was a set of Pakistani socket wrenches. Most of the sockets simply split rather than turned the bolt. The "steel" was more like pot metal. But I bought them used in a yard sale, in an unopened box for almost nothing, so I should not complain.
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me it`s a can opener. it`s only good for a couple of time then it`s useless. now I`m willing to pay extra certain items if I want it to last.
but anything like napkins dollar stores is ok
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