Author Topic: Is America really going to do this?  (Read 7236 times)

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MissusDe

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Is America really going to do this?
« on: October 27, 2008, 01:16:27 AM »
The impact of the financial crisis on the American presidential election has somewhat obscured the most important reason why the prospect of an Obama presidency is giving so many people nightmares. This is the fear that, if he wins, US defences will be emasculated at a time of unprecedented international peril and the enemies of America and the free world will seize their opportunity to destroy the west.

Personally, I don?t give any credence to the ?support? for one candidate over the other that has been expressed by the enemies of civilisation (Iran and Hamas ?support? Obama, while an al Qaeda blogger ?supports? McCain). Their agenda is simply to sow confusion and promote American recriminations and disarray. Nor do I set much store by many of the remarks made by either candidate during the latter stages of this election campaign, since under this kind of pressure both will now say pretty much anything to win it. The New York Times has run a useful analysis of the candidates? foreign policy campaign statements which shows how Obama has carefully tacked to the ?hard power? agenda while McCain has in turn nodded towards ?soft power?.

No, the only way to assess their position is to look at each man in the round, at what his general attitude is towards war and self-defence, aggression and appeasement, the values of the west and those of its enemies and ? perhaps most crucially of all ? the nature of the advisers and associates to whom he is listening. As I have said before, I do not trust McCain; I think his judgment is erratic and impetuous, and sometimes wrong. But on the big picture, he gets it. He will defend America and the free world whereas Obama will undermine them and aid their enemies.

Here?s why. McCain believes in protecting and defending America as it is. Obama tells the world he is ashamed of America and wants to change it into something else. McCain stands for American exceptionalism, the belief that American values are superior to tyrannies. Obama stands for the expiation of America?s original sin in oppressing black people, the third world and the poor.

Obama thinks world conflicts are basically the west?s fault, and so it must right the injustices it has inflicted. That?s why he believes in ?soft power? ? diplomacy, aid, rectifying ?grievances? (thus legitimising them, encouraging terror and promoting injustice) and resolving conflict by talking. As a result, he will take an axe to America?s defences at the very time when they need to be built up. He has said he will ?cut investments in unproven missile defense systems?; he will ?not weaponize space?; he will ?slow our development of future combat systems?; and he will also ?not develop nuclear weapons,? pledging to seek ?deep cuts? in America?s arsenal, thus unilaterally disabling its nuclear deterrent as Russia and China engage in massive military buildups.

McCain understands that an Islamic war of conquest is being waged on a number of diverse fronts which all have to be seen in relation to each other. For Obama, however, the real source of evil in the world is America. The evil represented by Iran and the Islamic jihadists is apparently all America?s fault. ?A lot of evil?s been perpetuated based on the claim that we were fighting evil,? he said. Last May, he dismissed Iran as a tiny place which posed no threat to the US -- before reversing himself the very next day when he said Iran was a great threat which had to be defeated. He has also said that Hezbollah and Hamas have ?legitimate grievances?. Really? And what might they be? Their grievances are a) the existence of Israel b) its support by America c) the absence of salafist Islam in the world. Does Obama think these ?grievances? are legitimate?

To solve world conflict, Obama places his faith in the UN club of terror and tyranny, which is currently fuelling the murderous global demonisation of Israel for having the temerity to defend itself and is even now preparing for a rerun of its own anti-Jew hate-fest of Durban 2, which preceded 9/11 by a matter of days.

McCain understands that Israel is the victim rather than the victimiser in the Middle East, that it is surrounded by genocidal enemies whose undiminished intention is to destroy it as a Jewish state, and that is both the first line of defence against the Islamist attack on the free world and its most immediate and important target.

Obama dismisses the threat from Islamism, shows zero grasp of the strategic threat to the region and the world from the encirclement of Israel by Iran, displays a similar failure to grasp the strategic importance of Iraq, thinks Israel is instead the source of Arab and Muslim aggression against the west, believes that a Palestinian state would promote world peace and considers that Israel ? particularly through the ?settlements? ? is the principal obstacle to that happy outcome. Accordingly, Obama has said he wants Israel to return to its 1967 borders ? actually the strategically indefensible 1948 cease-fire line, known accordingly as the ?Auschwitz borders?.

Obama would thus speak to Iran?s genocidal mullahs without preconditions on his side (the same mullahs have now laid down their own preconditions for America: pull all US troops out of the Middle East, and abandon support for ?Zionist? Israel) but has said he would have problems dealing with an Israeli government headed by a member of Israel?s Likud Party. In similar vein, it is notable that Obama opposed the congressional resolution labelling the Iranian Revolutionary Guards a terrorist organization, which passed the Senate by a wide margin with support from both parties. And had he had his way, there would have been no ?surge? in Iraq and America would instead have run up the white flag, with the incalculable bloodbath and strengthening of the jihad that would have followed.

Obama assumes that Islamic terrorism is driven by despair, poverty, inflammatory US policy and the American presence on Muslim soil in the Persian Gulf. Thus he adopts the agenda of the Islamists themselves. This is not surprising since many of his connections suggest that that the man who may be elected President of a country upon which the Islamists have declared war is himself firmly in the Islamists? camp. Daniel Pipes lists Obama?s extensive connections to Islamists in general and the Nation of Islam in particular, and concludes with this astounding observation:

    Obama's multiple links to anti-Americans and subversives mean he would fail the standard security clearance process for Federal employees. Islamic aggression represents America?s strategic enemy; Obama?s many insalubrious connections raise grave doubts about his fitness to serve as America's commander-in-chief.

The hatred that these Islamist connections entertain towards Israel is reflected amongst Obama?s own advisers. With one notable exception in Dennis Ross, whose late arrival in Camp Obama suggests a cosmetic exercise designed to allay alarm among Israel supporters, his advisers are overwhelmingly not only hostile to Israel but perpetrate the loathesome canard that Jews have too much power over American policy.

The former Carter adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, for example, not only denounced Israel?s war against Hezbollah thus:

    I think what the Israelis are doing today [2006] for example in Lebanon is in effect? maybe not in intent ? the killing of hostages

but also supports Mearsheimer and Walt?s notorious smear that the Jews have subverted America?s foreign policy in the interests of Israel. Merrill McPeak, vice chairman of Obama?s campaign and his chief military adviser, has similarly blamed problems in the Middle East on the influence of people who live in New York City and Miami (guess who) whom no ?politician wants to run against? and who he says exercise undue influence on America?s foreign affairs. Most revolting of all is Samantha Power, a very close adviser whom Obama fired for calling Hillary a ?monster? but who says she still expects to be in Obama?s administration. Not only has Power has advocated the ending of all aid to Israel and redirecting it to the Palestinians, but she has spoken about the need to land a ?mammoth force? of US troops in Israel to protect the Palestinians from Israeli attempts at genocide (sic) -- and has complained that criticism of Barack Obama all too often came down to what was ?good for the Jews?.

There are, alas, many in the west for whom all this is music to their ears. Whether through wickedness, ideology, stupidity or derangement, they firmly believe that the ultimate source of conflict in the world derives at root from America and Israel, whose societies, culture and values they want to see emasculated or destroyed altogether. They are drooling at the prospect that an Obama presidency will bring that about. The rest of us can?t sleep at night.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/2545716/is-america-really-going-to-do-this.thtml

sirs

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 01:44:49 AM »
Sadly....probably "yes", Miss De.  We need another Carter term to apparently wake the masses up, I'm afraid    :-\
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 01:51:31 PM »
The rightwing thinks that everything that the US government does is exactly perfect and believes that USA is always Number One. We should pass our time cnating USA USA USA and waving our giant rubber fingers in a threatening way at all the other people in the world to remind them of how f*cking great we are. If they don't like us, we should bomb them into submission, bugger their economies, depose their leaders, and force all our lesser weak allies to do the same.

The left believes that what is great about the USA is that we have the ability to improve things continuously, and if we do not, and simply believe that all the dumbassed things that the country has done over the years (ie the Vietnam War, the invasion of Iraq, torturing prisoners and overthowing democratically elected governments our oligarchy has disliked) should be celebrated, then we are failing in the promise of the country.

 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 02:02:18 PM »
The rightwing thinks that everything that the US government does is exactly perfect and believes that USA is always Number One. We should pass our time cnating USA USA USA and waving our giant rubber fingers in a threatening way at all the other people in the world to remind them of how f*cking great we are. If they don't like us, we should bomb them into submission, bugger their economies, depose their leaders, and force all our lesser weak allies to do the same.

And of course, Xo will never be able to demonstrate anything close to such an accusatory premice, with too many to count times right here in the saloon, from members of the "rightwing", many a criticism has been leveled not just at the U.S., but at this administration as well.  But that won't stop such asanine hyperbole, which by and large is his "obvious" trademark.  By all means, continue, Xo

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 02:07:31 PM »
There are gradients within the annoying behavior of rightwingers, but the most fanatical are those who have this "USA is greatest and never screws up" attitude.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

_JS

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 02:35:17 PM »
Melanie Phillips? The Spectator?

Seriously Missus? I expect this article from Sirs or Rich, but not you. I know you do not want your side to lose, but you are WAY above this.

Melanie Phillips is a FAR right hack in the UK that once worked for Rupert Murdoch. You ought to read some of her other articles. The Spectator is an upper-class right-wing magazine with an Atlanticist point of view. Boris Johnson was once the editor.

You'll note the Israeli apologist attitude with references to Auschwitz (completely irrelevant) and a Daniel Pipes citation ( ::) ).

There are some great articles and issues on which one could attack Obama or McCain - but this is just rubbish and should be confined to the dung heap. You're far better than Melanie Phillips or The Spectator, Missus.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
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Brassmask

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2008, 02:46:36 PM »
Clearly, Missus' posting of this article is indicative of her worries about an Obama presidency.

It appears to me that Missus has fallen prey to the fear-mongers on the right who want her to be afraid of Obama and work harder to make McCain the winner.

IN trying to light a candle rather than curse the darker, what would make you feel easier about the apparently impending Obama presidency, Missus?

What would you like to be hearing from Obama's side to make you more at ease?


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 04:31:42 PM »
Daniel Pipes sucks. Everyone knows what the borders between Israel and Palestine will look like. Pre 1976 with no walls and Zionist enclaves. Auschwitz has NOTHING to do with Israel's borders with Palestine. This is just a propaganda scare piece, unworthy of being taken seriously by sentient being.

The truth is that if any US president will ever get a settlement in Palisrael, that someone will be Obama. McCain will simply muddle along with no results as Juniorbush did. The Palestinians will never trust him. Hell, I don't trust him.

There is no excuse for the US getting into war after war after war. At least the Russians are fighting with their former Soviet partners. McCain is just another soldier who has never met a war he does not like. OIncluding the one he was most famous for fighting in Vietnam, which, by the way was lost from the git-go.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 04:38:35 PM »
Clearly, Missus' posting of this article is indicative of her worries about an Obama presidency.

It appears to me that Missus has fallen prey to the fear-mongers on the right who want her to be afraid of Obama and work harder to make McCain the winner.

IN trying to light a candle rather than curse the darker, what would make you feel easier about the apparently impending Obama presidency, Missus?

What would you like to be hearing from Obama's side to make you more at ease?



I can't answer for anyone elese , but I am indeed worried about a huge lurch to the left in the entire government. There is a faction of the left that never met an entitlement that they didn't like and we could wind up being stripped of property rights by a very leftist government, therby makeing us all dependant on one sort of dole or another.

Shortly after this half of the top 1% of wealthy Americans will move to Ireland.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2008, 04:50:53 PM »
I can't answer for anyone elese , but I am indeed worried about a huge lurch to the left in the entire government. There is a faction of the left that never met an entitlement that they didn't like and we could wind up being stripped of property rights by a very leftist government, therby makeing us all dependant on one sort of dole or another.

Shortly after this half of the top 1% of wealthy Americans will move to Ireland.

=====================
The danger is the huge lurch to the RIGHT that awarded the top 1% the ability to rook, cheat and rob the middle class of its rightful income in the first place. There is sure as hell a class war in the US. It started around the time of Reagan and with the help of the guys who wrote that wrinkled old ratbastard's scripts. So far, they have decimated and more the middle class.

Many of these superrich are actually paid huge amounts by the government in programs like farm subsidies and price support payments to the agribusinesses they own.

And no, they won't be moving to Ireland at all. Ireland taxes income on investments. What Ireland does not tax is income produced by works of art: paintings, fiction, poetry, music and such. They won't be moving to Ireland at all.

Frankly, it would not bother me if they all moved, so long as their money stayed here.

I could manage to get along without Donald Trump, Carl Icahn, Richard Mellon Scaife and their ilk quite well. So could we all. They add nothing to our socirety or culture and they take so much away.

What I don't understand is what evil spell have these villains cast upon people who have ZERO hope of ever being megazillionaires. Most of them made their money from stuff like weapons and insider trading, or they simply inherited from people who did those things or were just out and out crooks.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2008, 05:12:05 PM »
There is no "unprecedented" threat to America.  There is a real historical precedent of a much greater threat, specifically a nuclear-armed U.S.S.R., building missile launch pads in Cuba.  By comparison, the "threat" of some puny Middle Eastern nation not even in possession of nuclear weapons, being crazy enough to launch a single nuke on the U.S. (in return for instant annihilation) is pure fiction.  The same kind of hysterical, irrational bullshit that enabled a lying Bush administration to panic the American people into backing his ill-fated war on Iraq

However, there IS some evidence of an "unprecedented" threat to Israel, in the growing regional power of Iran, as well as militant Sunni groups who threaten the established U.S. puppet regimes in the region.  This would naturally be of great interest to persons such as Melanie Phillips, who in addition to writing a column for the Daily Mail, is also a contributor to the Jewish Chronicle. (http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/)

It is interesting how Phillips takes for granted that the most absurd anti-Islamic fantasies are true:  <<McCain understands that an Islamic war of conquest is being waged on a number of diverse fronts which all have to be seen in relation to each other.>>  OTOH, some basic home truths which are never mentioned in the MSM, let alone discussed in detail, are dismissed out of hand and without any argument even being considered: <<Zbigniew Brzezinski, for example,  . . .  supports Mearsheimer and Walt's notorious smear that the Jews have subverted America's foreign policy in the interests of Israel. >>  Actually, they call attention to the influence that the Zionist lobby exercises on U.S. foreign policy, a public discussion which Phillips and other Zionist agents desperately want never to happen.  For very obvious reasons.

Read the article again.  It's a desperate plea by a very panicked Zionist for Americans never to sit down with Arabs to discuss their differences (and the Arab-Israeli conflict) honestly and frankly but rather to continue blindly supporting the State of Israel in all its conflicts, whatever the cost to the U.S. in the Near East and around the world.  It's the visible despair of a Jew who believes that the West Bank was promised by God to the Jewish people and is now about to slip out of their fingers and into the hands of the Arabs who actually live there, due to some moral failing of Barack Obama, who may refuse to support the Israelis their 40-year military occupation of this territory.

Brassmask

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2008, 05:16:45 PM »

I can't answer for anyone elese , but I am indeed worried about a huge lurch to the left in the entire government. There is a faction of the left that never met an entitlement that they didn't like and we could wind up being stripped of property rights by a very leftist government, therby makeing us all dependant on one sort of dole or another.

Shortly after this half of the top 1% of wealthy Americans will move to Ireland.

How anyone in the world can worry about someone spending too much money from the government when the right had complete control for six years and spent like drunken sailors with reckless abandon is completely beyond me.

How can the Dems do ANY WORSE?  Cut checks for 1.4TRILLION dollars instead of the $700BILLION the GOP has?  Start more wars that cost more than 10BILLION a month?


Plane

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2008, 05:17:26 PM »
Frankly, it would not bother me if they all moved, so long as their money stayed here.




Well there you are , you never understood the fable of the Goose that laid golden eggs.

If the people who are creating wealth move somewhere , they are going to start produceing the wealth there.

Brassmask

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2008, 05:25:11 PM »

I can't answer for anyone elese , but I am indeed worried about a huge lurch to the left in the entire government. There is a faction of the left that never met an entitlement that they didn't like and we could wind up being stripped of property rights by a very leftist government, therby makeing us all dependant on one sort of dole or another.

Shortly after this half of the top 1% of wealthy Americans will move to Ireland.

How anyone in the world can worry about someone spending too much money from the government when the right had complete control for six years and spent like drunken sailors with reckless abandon is completely beyond me.

How can the Dems do ANY WORSE?  Cut checks for 1.4TRILLION dollars instead of the $700BILLION the GOP has?  Start more wars that cost more than 10BILLION a month?




When I think of Democrats in control, I think of a government that pays its bills and makes cuts AND supplies health care and so forth.  Bill Clinton, Howard Dean, Phil Bredesen and so forth.

All this bull hockey about tax and spend Dems may have been true in the 60's and 70's but hasn't been true for a really long time. It's another GOP-concocted lie designed to scare their base.

It's just flat-out false.

And even if it were true, the right is just as guilty.  At least the left would spend it to help poor people as opposed to your GOP governmental types who line their own pockets and give welfare to billionaires who don't need it.

Plane

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Re: Is America really going to do this?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2008, 05:32:38 PM »
[





When I think of Democrats in control, I think of a government that pays its bills and makes cuts AND supplies health care and so forth.  Bill Clinton, Howard Dean, Phil Bredesen and so forth.



Huh?

Bill Clinton was pretty lucky to be President during the Silicon Valley boom, but what did he do to cause it?
He was also lucky to be President during the time that the Baby Boom reached its peak earning years , but what did he do to cause that?

Try subtracting Social Security payments from the picture , Volla" no surplusses of any kind.

Track the national Debt during this period , how far was it really recovered?

Clinton was a total failure for his first two years , then with the help of a Republican Congress he began to succeed ,...somewhat.

As to Republicans doing better ,.... well you got a point there , the guys that were elected to effect change forgot all about it after a while and just became more of the same , how embarrasing for us.