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Author Topic: I disagree with the whole premise.  (Read 5562 times)

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Plane

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I disagree with the whole premise.
« on: August 31, 2016, 09:48:33 PM »
http://us-presidents.insidegov.com/stories/5134/most-influential-presidents?utm_medium=cm&utm_source=outbrain&utm_campaign=ao.cm.ob.dt.5134


   This is a ranking of presidents in order by which were the most agenda driven!

    The presidents are considered most successful if they pushed big programs , enacted strong executive orders ,signed landmark bills into law.


     Nope nope nope.

    It is un-American to consider it proper for the role of government to be intrusive and life shaping .

   Calvin Coolidge ranks low in this list even though as a president he ran a nearly perfect government.

    Hillary Clinton has recently stated her intention to change the minds of Christians about the meaning and value of life especially in respect to abortion.  She also stated that she wants to change everyone's mind about the right to self defense especially in respect to gun registration and regulation.

      Nope nope nope.

       The American way is the people telling the government what they want , not the government shaping the people to its likes.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2016, 09:25:43 AM »
Coolidge was an asshole. He did nothing but visit Louisiana when there was a great flood in 1927.
I agree with the premise that a great president LEADS the country.
Your criteria would result in Buchanan being a greater president than Lincoln, because he avoided the Civil War. No one wanted the Civil War as it actually turned out.
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sirs

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2016, 02:58:53 PM »
Necessary, such as a civil war that couldn't have been ignored, without the country splitting up, is not the same as an ideologically driven political agenda.  The latter is NOT leadership.  At worst, its dictatorship
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2016, 07:05:08 PM »
Lincoln revoked habeas corpus and was regularly accused of being a tyrant many times.
The last words he heard were John Wilkes Booth saying "Sic semper tyrannus!  (Thus always to tyrants, the motto of the state of Virginia).
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sirs

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2016, 07:23:35 PM »
Because if he hadn't, he country would have split.  As I said, dealing with an imminent war is leadership.  Dealing with a political agenda is NOT
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2016, 08:41:17 PM »
The country actually did split. Everyone knows that.
Lincoln got 39.6% of the vote. His name was not even on the ballot in my home town.
 
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Plane

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2016, 09:04:07 PM »
   So you accept as a good premise that the government should shape the people ?

    Why didn't we keep King George then?
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sirs

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2016, 03:53:16 AM »
Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on September 01, 2016, 08:41:17 PM
The country actually did split. Everyone knows that.

That's why there was a war.  THAT's where leadership is shown....in the face of war.  NOT in pushing some ideologically driven political agenda
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2016, 12:22:02 PM »
 NOT in pushing some ideologically driven political agenda

Whaaaa! 
The Republican party was int pushing some ideological agenda?
Read the 1860 Republican Party Platform. It is online.
Then read the party platforms of the Southern Democratic Party, the Northern Democratic Party and the Constitutional Union Party. Every one of them had an agenda, and they all addressed slavery as a very important issue, along with the preservation of the Union.

They all had intensely driven political agendas.
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sirs

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2016, 12:28:11 PM »
We weren't talking about political parties now, were we Dr Deflection.  We were discussing leaders & leadership...particularly in Presidents.     ::) 
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Plane

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2016, 11:03:54 PM »
Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on September 02, 2016, 12:22:02 PM
NOT in pushing some ideologically driven political agenda

Whaaaa! 
The Republican party was int pushing some ideological agenda?
Read the 1860 Republican Party Platform. It is online.
Then read the party platforms of the Southern Democratic Party, the Northern Democratic Party and the Constitutional Union Party. Every one of them had an agenda, and they all addressed slavery as a very important issue, along with the preservation of the Union.

They all had intensely driven political agendas.

Perhaps they should not have been.

There were Quakers using moral suasion to reduce the popularity of slave owning and trading.

Was the war better than letting the process run for a few more decades?
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2016, 12:16:54 AM »
Leadership and ideology are inseparable. That is not a deflection.

Coolidge, for example, had a simple ideology: "The business of America is business.", despite the fact that no more than 10% of the population actually had a real business, About 40% were farmers, and small farms are not really a business, they are simply suppliers of raw materials at  whatever the going rate was. Coolidge  cared only about businessmen and did not give a shit  about workers, women's rights, Blacks and farmers. He was  at best a placeholder between the nincompoop Harding and the rather useless and disappointing Hoover.
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sirs

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2016, 12:23:22 AM »
Of course they can be seperable.  Lincoln's leadership in executing the Civil War had squat to do with ideology.  ::)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 01:30:49 PM by sirs »
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2016, 12:45:17 PM »
Why didn't we keep King George then?

King George was not interested in shaping the people,. He was interested in taxing them to finance world domination.

Yeah, slavery and secession were entirely related to ideology. Suuure.
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sirs

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Re: I disagree with the whole premise.
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2016, 01:33:37 PM »
Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on September 03, 2016, 12:45:17 PM
Yeah, slavery and secession were entirely related to ideology. Suuure.

Perfect example.....that has squat to do with leadership.....particularly in a President.  Thank you for proving my point, once again
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"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle
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