Author Topic: That Didn't Take Long  (Read 2955 times)

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_JS

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That Didn't Take Long
« on: October 25, 2007, 04:27:45 PM »
Romney embraces Jones endorsement
By GLEN JOHNSON
Associated Press Writer



"I'm proud to have the respect of people and the support of people who don't agree with my faith, but agree that I'm the right person to be president."

Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney embraced his association with Christian conservative Bob Jones III Thursday despite Jones' sharp criticism of the Mormon faith central to Romney's life.

"I'm proud to have the respect of people and the support of people who don't agree with my faith, but agree that I'm the right person to be president," the former Massachusetts governor said while campaigning here. "And I'm not running for preacher; I'm running for president."

In the 2000 election, George W. Bush similarly basked in the reputation of Bob Jones University, a Greenville, S.C., school named for Jones's grandfather that is influential with some conservative Christians. Less than a month after a visit to the school, Bush wound up apologizing to Roman Catholic leaders for "causing needless offense."

The university teaches its students that Catholicism, like Mormonism, is a cult. At the time, it also had a policy banning interracial dating between its students. It rescinded the policy after publicity generated by Bush's visit.

The university continues a policy of banning alumni it says are "militant" homosexuals from its campus, school spokesman Jonathan Patie said Monday during an interview with The Associated Press.

Bob Jones III, the university's chancellor, said in his endorsement of Romney last week, "As a Christian, I am completely opposed to the doctrines of Mormonism." He also labeled the Mormon church an "erroneous faith," and included it in with Catholicism as a non-Christian "cult."

Nonetheless, Jones said he was backing Romney because he believes the GOP presidential contender embraces conservative values.

Romney's campaign has been touting the endorsement to skeptical evangelicals. Such support could prove critical in the Upstate area of South Carolina, the state slated to hold the third presidential primary.

Romney, bidding to become the first Mormon president, has said he understands questions about his faith, but he has also been protective of the Utah-based Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which he once served as a bishop and which he continues to back financially.

Asked Thursday how he could accept Jones's criticism of such a central facet of his life, Romney said: "Each church thinks their church is the best one or they wouldn't be going to it. ... The great thing about America is, we have our differences in viewpoint, but they don't lead to our discrimination against people based on their faith, or certainly lead to the kinds of violence we see in other places in the world."

Later, in comments certain to appeal to social conservatives, Romney jabbed at the "family values" of Democratic front-runner Hillary Rodham Clinton and her husband by harkening back to former President Clinton's affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky.

In response to a guest at a house party in Hooksett, N.H., who asked him how he would instill family values as president, Romney said: "One of the ways that you help instill, if you will, family values is by having a White House be a place that demonstrates family values. And, you know, I think during the last Clinton presidency, the White House did not demonstrate that in a way that was helpful to our nation's character."

Howard Wolfson, a spokesman for Clinton, fired back: "Hillary Clinton needs no lessons on character from a man who switches his positions on a daily basis."
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Plane

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2007, 04:31:01 PM »
Wonderfull.

Bridge building.

Brassmask

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2007, 09:07:56 PM »
Wonderfull.

Bridge building.

Wonder why Bob Jones can't or won't build any bridges with his Islamic counterparts, the Mullahs or the Taliban or any other "islamo-fascists"?

They want the same exact things for humans, their differences are no larger than the difference between Coke and Pepsi.

Both want to subjugate women.
Both want to have church and state combined.
Both want to force everyone to worship their god.

When they join up, watch out.  (If they haven't already.)

Plane

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2007, 10:17:08 PM »
Wonderfull.

Bridge building.

Wonder why Bob Jones can't or won't build any bridges with his Islamic counterparts, the Mullahs or the Taliban or any other "islamo-fascists"?

They want the same exact things for humans, their differences are no larger than the difference between Coke and Pepsi.

Both want to subjugate women. No
Both want to have church and state combined. No
Both want to force everyone to worship their god. Not at all.

When they join up, watch out.  (If they haven't already.)

Where do you get these ideas?

Brassmask

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2007, 04:44:17 AM »
Wonderfull.

Bridge building.

Wonder why Bob Jones can't or won't build any bridges with his Islamic counterparts, the Mullahs or the Taliban or any other "islamo-fascists"?

They want the same exact things for humans, their differences are no larger than the difference between Coke and Pepsi.

Both want to subjugate women. No
Both want to have church and state combined. No
Both want to force everyone to worship their god. Not at all.

When they join up, watch out.  (If they haven't already.)

Where do you get these ideas?

Subjugate women:  Do you deny that "xians" generally believe that a woman's place is in the home raising the kids?  Didn't one of the christo-fascists most celebrated "commentators" state flatly that women should have their right to vote revoked in order to forgo any future democratic presidencies?
Church/state combo: Would you deny that christo-fascists are not constantly pushing to have the ten commandments posted in public buildings?  Aren't they always saying things like "America is a 'christian nation'"?  Are christo-fascists not constantly "pointing their fingers at liberals, feminists..." for things like 9.11?  Didn't one of the christo-fascists most celebrated "commentators" say that as a nation, we should "invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them all to xtianity"?
Force other to worship their gods:  Missionaries?  Prayer at schools?  Don't give that horseshit about just not saying it with everyone.  Any kid in school fears being ostracized and its only after being ostracized that a kid becomes a cynical rebel.  Peer pressure is real no matter what you're horseshit "stance" is.  Don't even get me started on how christo-fascists have conducted a war on gay people for centuries.

All James Dobson needs is a turban, a beard and he's Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.

Universe Prince

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2007, 05:44:18 AM »

Subjugate women:  Do you deny that "xians" generally believe that a woman's place is in the home raising the kids?


I can't speak for Plane, but I'll be happy to deny that. Do some Christians believe that? Yep. Do Christians generally believe that? No, they do not.

I'm not even going to bother with the horse hockey that is the rest of your post. Well, except for this:



All James Dobson needs is a turban, a beard and he's Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.


No, but the way you talk, you're not a whole lot different than the so-called "christo-fascists" you're criticizing. You may criticize James Dobson and folks like him for being judgmental and for irrational meanness, but that is exactly what I see in your post. From where I sit, about the only thing different is your religious preference.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Plane

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2007, 11:21:49 AM »

Subjugate women:  Do you deny that "xians" generally believe that a woman's place is in the home raising the kids?


I can't speak for Plane, but I'll be happy to deny that. Do some Christians believe that? Yep. Do Christians generally believe that? No, they do not.

I'm not even going to bother with the horse hockey that is the rest of your post. Well, except for this:



All James Dobson needs is a turban, a beard and he's Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.


No, but the way you talk, you're not a whole lot different than the so-called "christo-fascists" you're criticizing. You may criticize James Dobson and folks like him for being judgmental and for irrational meanness, but that is exactly what I see in your post. From where I sit, about the only thing different is your religious preference.

I can't improve on this ,thanks.

Brassmask

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2007, 01:51:27 PM »

Subjugate women:  Do you deny that "xians" generally believe that a woman's place is in the home raising the kids?


I can't speak for Plane, but I'll be happy to deny that. Do some Christians believe that? Yep. Do Christians generally believe that? No, they do not.

I'm not even going to bother with the horse hockey that is the rest of your post. Well, except for this:



All James Dobson needs is a turban, a beard and he's Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani.


No, but the way you talk, you're not a whole lot different than the so-called "christo-fascists" you're criticizing. You may criticize James Dobson and folks like him for being judgmental and for irrational meanness, but that is exactly what I see in your post. From where I sit, about the only thing different is your religious preference.

Are you saying that I want to subjugate women?
Are you saying that I want Church and State combined?
Are you saying that I want everyone to worship my god?

I'd be amused to see your twisted logic for any of this.  I'm sure this is just you assigning your own twisted meaning to my anger at the christo-fascists for wanting all those VERY things but it would be funny to see you try to make sense of your obtuse statements regarding judgment and meanness.

Universe Prince

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2007, 02:31:21 PM »

Are you saying that I want to subjugate women?


No, I didn't say that.


Are you saying that I want Church and State combined?


No, I didn't say that.


Are you saying that I want everyone to worship my god?


No, I didn't say that.


I'm sure this is just you assigning your own twisted meaning to my anger at the christo-fascists for wanting all those VERY things but it would be funny to see you try to make sense of your obtuse statements regarding judgment and meanness.


I am saying however that your comments look, to me, a lot like the ones you're criticizing. You're making generalized accusations. You're taking the words of one or two people and trying to claim they represent some sort of wide-spread fascist movement. And of course, you're clearly staking out some cultural victimhood ground that they are too pervasive in our culture and out ruin things for everyone else for their own self-centered goals. Which is exactly the sort of thing I have heard for years from the sort of people you're criticizing. There are shelves and shelves of books about how Christians are surrounded on all sides by secular culture that is corrupting adults and children with pornography and toys and music and television and the internet and books and peer pressure. There are books and preachers and such who make ridiculous generalizations about anything they don't like or don't understand, broad-brushing whole swaths of the populace with one derogatory brush or other. As I said before, from where I sit, about the only thing different is your religious preference.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2007, 04:26:10 PM »



Are you saying that I want Church and State combined?


No, I didn't say that.



I would say that!

Wanting the government to support your secularism is no more or less objectionable than a puritan of any stripe wanting government enforcement of his favoriate dogma.

Do you want evolution taught in school , even to children from familys that object? That is governmental interference in child rearing and the government should not have the power to choose the indoctrination of children into a religion or lack thereof.

Would you change the National Motto from "IN God we trust "  and "E Pluribus Unium "to some other thing?

I suggest "We don't agree on anything here".

Universe Prince

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2007, 07:18:09 PM »

Wanting the government to support your secularism is no more or less objectionable than a puritan of any stripe wanting government enforcement of his favoriate dogma.

Do you want evolution taught in school , even to children from familys that object? That is governmental interference in child rearing and the government should not have the power to choose the indoctrination of children into a religion or lack thereof.


So are you then in full support then of abolishing the entire public school system? If you don't want government interference in child rearing, abolishing the entire public school system is what that would require. In any case, I don't agree that teaching evolution, a scientific theory, in science classes is comparable to teaching children there is no God.


Would you change the National Motto from "IN God we trust "  and "E Pluribus Unium "to some other thing?

I suggest "We don't agree on anything here".


I'd be fine with dropping "In God We Trust" because we clearly don't and because we are a secular nation not a theocracy. I happen to like "E Pluribus Unum".
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

_JS

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2007, 08:11:30 PM »
I must say that I don't find this to be such a wonderful event. I doubt that Plane would call it "bridge building" if the American Nazi Party or the Ku Klux Klan were to endorse Mitt Romney, and Romney talked about what a great thing that was.

Bob Jones is little different. He preaches a very strong kind of hate, just in softer language than his old man.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Stray Pooch

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2007, 08:41:53 PM »
Are you saying that I want to subjugate women?

No.  You want to subjugate theists.

Are you saying that I want Church and State combined?

No. You want the church abolished and the state supreme.

Are you saying that I want everyone to worship my god?

No.  you want everyone who worships God forced into hiding.

And while Pat Robertson (who an awful lot of Christians including me think is an idiot) blames liberals for 9-11 that is not any different from you blaming the neo-cons.  It's not that you are in any way more tolerant, you just have a different set of targets for your bigotry.

Effectively, to continue your metaphor, you are a Atheo-fascist.  The only difference between you,  al-Sistani and James Dobson is that the theists you hate want the world to follow the will of their God.  You want the world to follow the your will.  There is no other difference in the mindset.  I guess if you just had a turban and a beard . . .

Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

sirs

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2007, 09:11:00 PM »
Cudos Pooch.  Knocked that one out of the park.  Let's hope the Colorado offense follows suit tonight       8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Stray Pooch

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Re: That Didn't Take Long
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2007, 10:40:02 PM »
Cudos Pooch.  Knocked that one out of the park.  Let's hope the Colorado offense follows suit tonight       8)

Sorry, sirs, but it seems that the only help the Rockies are getting tonight is from the umpires.   OOPS, there's another two.  5-0 Boston!

FTR I am an Orioles fan first, but having spent a decade in New England I am an honoary Sox fan.  :D

JEEZ.  Let's try 6-0!  They have scored three runs since I started this post.  (Actually, the score should be 7-0, but I'm thinking Manny will get over it.)

Love that dirty water . . . 
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .