Author Topic: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006  (Read 6345 times)

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sirs

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2006, 12:58:33 AM »
I'll just say this....To this day they refer to me as "The Rock" in Rhode Island. Search the archives of the providence Journal Bulletin if you want to know more.

I just want to know when this rebellious advocating speech of yours is supposed to be throwing you behind bars.  That is what you keep implying, free speech and all being "under attack"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

larry

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2006, 01:24:06 AM »
I just want to know when this rebellious advocating speech of yours is supposed to be throwing you behind bars.  That is what you keep implying, free speech and all being "under attack"


Its happening every day Sirs. Political activist are being put in jail. Lawyers are being put on trial. Journalist are being put in prison. All because they criticize the Bush Administration. Don't you read the papers? Have you read the articles about the content of the Military Commissions Act Of 2006. Get your had out of the sand.

Plane

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2006, 01:34:38 AM »
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/d/edward_d_diprete/index.html




Well,... so you are a whistleblower?


I want to ask you about the adeuacy of whistleblower protections.

sirs

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2006, 03:44:51 AM »
Its happening every day Sirs. Political activist are being put in jail. Lawyers are being put on trial. Journalist are being put in prison. All because they criticize the Bush Administration. Don't you read the papers? Have you read the articles about the content of the Military Commissions Act Of 2006. Get your had out of the sand.

Yea, I've read the papers.  NO WHERE does it report anyone being jailed for simply Bashing Bush.  When you can actually start producing examples of this widespread jailing of people for simply speaking their minds, you might have a leg to stand on there, Larry.  Your "less-than-objective" say so simply doesn't come along with enough credibility attached, for any of these accusations to be taken seriously
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

larry

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2006, 11:11:40 AM »
Yea, I've read the papers.  NO WHERE does it report anyone being jailed for simply Bashing Bush.  When you can actually start producing examples of this widespread jailing of people for simply speaking their minds, you might have a leg to stand on there, Larry.  Your "less-than-objective" say so simply doesn't come along with enough credibility attached, for any of these accusations to be taken seriously

My Reply:

You are the one who has no leg to stand on. The Military Commissions Act Of 2006, nullify "writ of habeas corpus " U.S. citizens can be seized and held indefinitely with formally be charged. U.S. citizens can be denied trial by jury. U.S. citizens can be "compelled by means of torture, to be a witness against ones self" Sirs, you know what the First ten amendments state, but you are confusing patriotism with hero warship. Its people like you who make it possible for people like Adolf Hitler to come to power. You and I are at war. Fortunally, we are waging the battle in cyber space and in the voting booth. Those who are elected will Carrie the battle to Washington, the Congress, the senate and the supreme court. You're tough, intelligent and I respect your right to support and promote what you believe, but I think you are wrong and hopefully the military commissions act of 2006, will at some point be found to be unconstitutional.

Our best shot is to vote, I will and I hope everyone who can vote will. Voting is not always just, but that is another issue of contention. Sirs, I think you and I are an example of how divided the people of this country are. I don't see any common ground between us and that is where the real value of 3DHS comes into play. The debate is real and of much more value than the spin of the main stream medias. I think the democrats are going to sweep both houses this year, but its not because the republicans did not put up a fight, its because the leadership of the republican party has violated the political values of the general public. We will know if I'm right or wrong in three weeks.

Amianthus

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2006, 11:15:52 AM »
The Military Commissions Act Of 2006, nullify "writ of habeas corpus "

Please provide a quote from the new law that nullifies habeas corpus.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

larry

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2006, 11:26:21 AM »
I am disappointed. This was strictly hypothetical.

BT, for you and me it is strictly hypothetical. However, we see computers being seized every day and the content being used in court. We also see statement being taken out of context to fabricate false impressions. Framing the question is important. When the word "You" is used, it is no longer hypothetical, it is asking for a personal statement. Yesterday a forteen year old girl posted a statement on her blog and said something about killing George Bush, the FBI, seized her at her school and held her for questioning, without the consent of her parants or a lawyer being present. I also am disappointed, that people don't see what is going on in this country.

larry

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sirs

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2006, 11:40:56 AM »
..... You and I are at war. ......

That's pretty much the only thing you've gotten right in your latest rant, Larry.  We're at war with Islamofascists (or militant Islam for the PC sensitive folks of the saloon).  If your claims had any merit, you, Brass, Lanya, Tee, Terra, would all be behind bars.  Until you can actually demonstrate examples of folks being thrown into jail for simply daring to dissent against Bush and/or the war, your foundation is no stronger than a straw house
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

larry

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2006, 01:40:20 PM »
US Senate votes to rollback habeas corpus, use torture, and provide immunity for US officials from torture prosecutionSeptember 29, 2006, the US Senate agreed to the Military Commissions Act of 2006 which gives US President George Bush unprecedented power to detain and try people as part of their “War on Terror.” President Bush is then expected to sign the Act into law. Broadly, the new Act does 3 things:

Strips the right of detainees to habeas corpus (the traditional right of detainees to challenge their detention);
Gives the US President the power to detain indefinitely anyone—US or foreign nationals, from within the US, and from abroad—it deems to have provided material support to anti-US hostilities, and even use secret and coerced evidence (i.e. through use of torture) to try detainees who will be held in secret US military prisons;
Gives US officials immunity from prosecution for torturing detainees that were captured before the end of 2005 by US military and CIA.
The bill was passed by the Senate sixty five votes in favor, thirty four against. Twelve Democrats joined the Republican majority. The House passed virtually the same legislation a few days earlier on Wednesday, 27 September.

The New York Times noted the far-reaching powers the Act will give the president, and other top officials observing that, “Rather than reining in the formidable presidential powers … asserted since Sept. 11, 2001, the law gives some of those powers a solid statutory foundation. In effect it allows the president to identify enemies, imprison them indefinitely and interrogate them—albeit with a ban on the harshest treatment—beyond the reach of the full court reviews traditionally afforded criminal defendants and ordinary prisoners.” Furthermore, not only does the Act allow the president to determine the meaning and application of the Geneva Conventions, “it also strips the courts of jurisdiction to hear challenges to his interpretation.”

This can have far-reaching consequences. For example, Amnesty International says the legislation will lead to violations of international law and standards and accuses the US Congress of “failing human rights” by voting for this Act and says it “deeply regrets that Congress failed to resist this executive pressure and instead has given a green light for violations of the USA’s international obligations.”

The international human rights organization expands on the above 3 points (see previous link) and is summarized here:

Striping habeas corpus and other fundamental rights
On this issue, Amnesty international notes that the Act will:

Strip the US courts of jurisdiction to hear or consider habeas corpus appeals challenging the lawfulness or conditions of detention of anyone held in US custody as an “enemy combatant.”
Prohibit any person from invoking the Geneva Conventions or their protocols as a source of rights in any action in any US court.
Permit civilians captured far from any battlefield to be tried by military commission rather than civilian courts, contradicting international standards and case law.
Limit the right of charged detainees to be represented by counsel of their choosing.

sirs

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2006, 02:00:33 PM »
And yet still no examples, NOT 1, of anyone being hauled away for daring to bash Bush.  Does credibility mean nothing to you, Larry?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Amianthus

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2006, 02:23:41 PM »
Here you go, take your pic. The sources abound.

A bunch of blogs saying it, does not make it so.

How's about a quote from the legislation?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Bush' Signs The Military Commissions Act Of 2006
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2006, 01:41:19 AM »
ABC Frames Look at Military Commissions Around Left-Wing Concerns

     Of the broadcast network evening newscasts on Tuesday, ABC aired coverage the most hostile to the "Military Commissions Act of 2006," which President Bush signed earlier in the day. World News anchor Charles Gibson noted how Republican objections had been addressed, but "civil liberties groups," a nice euphemism for liberals, "are calling the new law a violation of American values and have already gone to court to overturn it." The story from Martha Raddatz concentrated on those concerns as she asserted that "the language is so vague, say some lawyers, you could drive a truck through it. Others say it's just wrong." A lawyer for Guantanamo detainees then bemoaned: "What this bill does is reverse 500 years of common law history and said the President, the king, the executive can throw somebody in jail without needing to justify it to a court. That violates the rule of law and it violates our Constitution."

     After not airing any pro-bill soundbites, other than a clip of Bush, Raddatz concluded by relaying how Senator Russell Feingold contended: "We will look back on this day as a stain on our nation's history." Gibson asked why so few Democrats voiced opposition. Raddatz pointed out how "this has not been a winning issue for the Democrats. In fact, in recent polls, 53 percent of Americans said it was okay to have secret prisons where U.S. laws did not apply. Basically, Charlie," she fretted, "Americans do not want torture, but they fear terrorist attacks even more."

     The MRC's Brad Wilmouth corrected the closed-captioning against the video to provide this transcript of the October 17 story on ABC's World News:

     Anchor Charles Gibson introduced Raddatz: "At the White House, President Bush signed into law new rules allowing tough interrogations and military trials for terrorism suspects. The bill was held up in Congress by some Republicans. They say their concerns were addressed. But civil liberties groups are calling the new law a violation of American values and have already gone to court to overturn it. Here's ABC's chief White House correspondent, Martha Raddatz."

     Martha Raddatz, from DC with the White House in the background: "At today's signing, the President described the legislation as one of the most important tools in fighting the war on terror."
     George W. Bush, at bill signing: "It allows for the clarity our intelligence professionals need to continue questioning terrorists and saving lives."
     Raddatz: "But legal experts say huge questions about the law still remain. Central to it all, interrogations."
     Eugene Fidell, National Institute of Military Justice: "This legislation doesn't say what you can do. What it says is you can't torture, but the administration may have a different view of what torture is than you or I might have."
     Raddatz: "And it is, indeed, up to the President to interpret what constitutes torture."
     Tony Snow: "The government will not tell you the precise questioning techniques for the reasons that you do not want to give terrorists the ability to plan in advance for techniques that might be used."
     Raddatz: "The language is so vague, say some lawyers, you could drive a truck through it. Others say it's just wrong."
     Thomas Wilner, lawyer for Guantanamo detainees: "What this bill does is reverse 500 years of common law history and said the President, the king, the executive can throw somebody in jail without needing to justify it to a court. That violates the rule of law and it violates our Constitution."
     Raddatz: "What is clear is this: The government can now proceed with the prosecution of detainees such as Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, accused of masterminding the 9/11 attacks. Hearsay evidence, which would not be admissible in civilian courts, will be allowed if a judge deems it reliable. And detainees are denied habeas corpus, so they cannot challenge their detention in court. There were only a few Democrats who released statements today critical of the bill. One of them, Senator Russell Feingold, saying, 'We will look back on this day as a stain on our nation's history.' Charlie?"
     Gibson: "Martha, you mentioned there were only a few politicians who spoke out against it. Many more human rights people than politicians were objecting to this bill. And I suspect there's a reason for that."
     Raddatz: "There is a reason, Charlie. This has not been a winning issue for the Democrats. In fact, in recent polls, 53 percent of Americans said it was okay to have secret prisons where U.S. laws did not apply. Basically, Charlie, Americans do not want torture, but they fear terrorist attacks even more."


http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2006/cyb20061018.asp#1
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle