Author Topic: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]  (Read 22122 times)

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BT

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2006, 02:32:39 AM »
Quote
Lying about the 'little' stuff is a pretty good indicator that the man is a liar,

You might have a point if this is an example of Bush lying about the little stuff.
But it isn't, so you don't.

This isn't a case about blindily defending Bush.

This is once again a case  of you and Brass failing to come even close to making your case. Your pathetic attempt to take a quote out of context and then  make it proof positive of a little lie shows the shallowness of your thought process. What kind of brain numbed zombie stepford wife or husband would take a such weak post from think progress and think they had something worthy of submitting for examination proof of an impotent charge.




Lanya

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2006, 03:32:56 AM »


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/23/AR2006102301053.html

Bush's New Tack Steers Clear of 'Stay the Course'

By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 24, 2006; Page A01

President Bush and his aides are annoyed that people keep misinterpreting his Iraq policy as "stay the course." A complete distortion, they say. "That is not a stay-the-course policy," White House press secretary Tony Snow declared yesterday.

Where would anyone have gotten that idea? Well, maybe from Bush.
   

"What you have is not 'stay the course' but in fact a study in constant motion," White House press secretary Tony Snow said yesterday. (By Ron Edmonds -- Associated Press)

"We will stay the course. We will help this young Iraqi democracy succeed," he said in Salt Lake City in August.

"We will win in Iraq so long as we stay the course," he said in Milwaukee in July.

"I saw people wondering whether the United States would have the nerve to stay the course and help them succeed," he said after returning from Baghdad in June.

But the White House is cutting and running from "stay the course." A phrase meant to connote steely resolve instead has become a symbol for being out of touch and rigid in the face of a war that seems to grow worse by the week, Republican strategists say. Democrats have now turned "stay the course" into an attack line in campaign commercials, and the Bush team is busy explaining that "stay the course" does not actually mean stay the course.

Instead, they have been emphasizing in recent weeks how adaptable the president's Iraq policy actually is. Bush remains steadfast about remaining in Iraq, they say, but constantly shifts tactics and methods in response to an adjusting enemy. "What you have is not 'stay the course' but in fact a study in constant motion by the administration," Snow said yesterday.

Political rhetoric, of course, is often in constant motion as well. But with midterm elections two weeks away, the Bush team is searching for a formula to address public opposition to the war, struggling to appear consistent and flexible at the same time. That was underscored by the reaction to a New York Times report that the administration is drafting a timetable for the Iraqi government to disarm militias and assume a larger security role. The White House initially called the story "inaccurate." But then White House counselor Dan Bartlett went on CNN yesterday morning to call it "a little bit overwritten" because in fact it was something the administration had been doing for months.

The president has shifted language on Iraq before. At a news conference in August, he returned to his prewar argument that Saddam Hussein harbored terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Hussein "had relations with Zarqawi," Bush said. Weeks later, the Senate intelligence committee concluded that Hussein "did not have a relationship, harbor or turn a blind eye to Zarqawi" and that the U.S. government knew that before the invasion. At his next news conference, Bush was asked about that. "I never said there was an operational relationship," he said.

Bush used "stay the course" until recent weeks when it became clear that it was becoming a political problem. "The characterization of, you know, 'it's stay the course' is about a quarter right," Bush complained at an Oct. 11 news conference. " 'Stay the course' means keep doing what you're doing. My attitude is: Don't do what you're doing if it's not working -- change. 'Stay the course' also means don't leave before the job is done."

By last week, it was no longer a quarter right. "Listen, we've never been stay the course, George," he told George Stephanopoulos of ABC News. "We have been -- we will complete the mission, we will do our job and help achieve the goal, but we're constantly adjusting the tactics. Constantly."

Snow said Bush dropped the phrase "because it left the wrong impression about what was going on. And it allowed critics to say, 'Well, here's an administration that's just embarked upon a policy and not looking at what the situation is,' when, in fact, it's just the opposite."

Republican strategists were glad to see him reject the language, if not the policy. "They're acknowledging that it's not sending the message they want to send," said Steve Hinkson, political director at Luntz Research Cos., a GOP public opinion firm. The phrase suggested "burying your head in the sand," Hinkson said, adding that it was no longer useful signaling determination. "The problem is that as the number of people who agree with remaining resolute dwindles, that sort of language doesn't strike a chord as much as it once did."

If anything, it is striking a Democratic chord, party strategists say. A commercial by Democratic Senate candidate James Webb in Virginia shows a clip of Bush saying "We'll stay the course in Iraq," followed by a clip of Republican Sen. George Allen, saying "I very much agree with the president. . . . And we need to stay the course." A caption on the screen says "Civil War; No End in Sight; We Need a New Course."

An ad for Democratic Rep. Harold E. Ford Jr. in Tennessee shows Republican Bob Corker saying "I think we should stay the course," then rewinds and repeats "we should stay the course." Ford then comes onto the screen. "I support our troops, and I voted for the war," he says. "But we shouldn't stay the course as Mr. Corker wants. . . . America should always be strong. But we should be smart and honest, too. We need a new direction."

Juxtaposed against "stay the course," "new direction" has become the Democrats' poll-tested mantra, even if they don't define precisely what that new direction would be. "There's a reason why every Democratic candidate in the country is talking now about change in direction," said Democratic National Committee pollster Cornell Belcher. "When you ask 'change in direction' versus Bush's direction, you get solid majorities of 60 percent or so for change."

So now even some Republican candidates are changing direction, at least in terms of their language. "We can't continue to keep doing the same things and expect different results," Allen said last week. "We must adapt. We must adjust our tactics." Corker now says on his campaign Web site: "We need to fix our strategy in Iraq so we can get the job done and bring our troops home."

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BT

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2006, 04:46:29 AM »
This is what Bush said:

 "Listen, we've never been stay the course, George," he told George Stephanopoulos of ABC News. "We have been -- we will complete the mission, we will do our job and help achieve the goal, but we're constantly adjusting the tactics. Constantly."

Snow clarifying  said Bush dropped the phrase "because it left the wrong impression about what was going on. And it allowed critics to say, 'Well, here's an administration that's just embarked upon a policy and not looking at what the situation is,' when, in fact, it's just the opposite."

Both Snow and Bush are correct.

So where is the "little lie" ?






Lanya

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2006, 01:40:56 PM »
 Posted by: Plane
Insert Quote
I President Bush starts thinking that Representative Murtha is right, and suggests bulling back in the style that has been suggested by Mrs. Sheehan.....


This is no reason for rejoicing among the people who want this to happen?


Why would someone get mad at an opponent for coming around to a new way of thinking?
________________________________
Maybe because when Rep. Murtha proposed his redeployment strategy, he was smeared, called a coward on the floor of the House of Representatives by a mindless harpy from Ohio, Jean Schmitt,  reviled as a 'cut'n run' Democrat, and Cindy Sheehan is called a whore and worse.  ANd every one who agrees with them was called an appeaser, traitor, etc.
But when the election comes round and the GOP sees that more people agree with Murtha? 
They suddenly say, "Oh, we've never said "Stay the course."  " 
So you can see why it is a LIE.  A big, god damn lie, only trotted out when they're afraid they might be losing power.

THe truth doesn't matter to the GOP.  Only power. 
Now do you get it?  WHy it matters?  Why words matter?  "Your word is your bond."  Little Georgie needs to learn that.
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Lanya

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2006, 01:42:45 PM »
This is what Bush said:

 "Listen, we've never been stay the course, George," he told George Stephanopoulos of ABC News. "We have been -- we will complete the mission, we will do our job and help achieve the goal, but we're constantly adjusting the tactics. Constantly."

Snow clarifying  said Bush dropped the phrase "because it left the wrong impression about what was going on. And it allowed critics to say, 'Well, here's an administration that's just embarked upon a policy and not looking at what the situation is,' when, in fact, it's just the opposite."

Both Snow and Bush are correct.

So where is the "little lie" ?

-----------------------------------

There is no one so blind as he who will not see.
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Brassmask

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2006, 02:40:45 PM »
They stopped using it because they didn't like how people had stopped seeing it as "Bush the Decider" and were now coming around to it being viewed "Bush the dumb fuck who is so egotistical he won't change even if it means only Laura and Barney support him".

If things were going the way they are lying and saying they are, then he'd still be saying they're going to stay the course.

The fact that you guys are STILL obstinately trying to say they never said "stay the course" points to real delusion and outright stupidity, imo.

Can you even point to one mistake Bush has made since taking office?

BT

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2006, 03:15:35 PM »
Quote
They stopped using it because they didn't like how people had stopped seeing it as "Bush the Decider"

If the message is not getting across, isn't it wise to rephrase it?

I see nothing wrong with that. I certainly don't see it as a lie, which is yours and lanya's claim.

Nor do i see the dems constant changing of slogans and mantras as a lie. It is simply fine tuning the message.

How many time have you reworked your own replies in here to make sure your point was understood.

Why should the Bush admin be any different.




sirs

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2006, 03:41:12 PM »
Can you even point to one mistake Bush has made since taking office?

Expanded Government greater than any President before hand
Farm Subsidy Bill signed
Executire order for Steel Tariffs
Medicare Drug Presription Bill signed
Amnesty program support
Those are just 5, off the top of my head.  I'm confident I could push that to 15-20 with time to think about it. 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2006, 03:53:59 PM »
And none having to do with Iraq?

Hmmm.  How convenient.

And all wonky money related issues.

sirs

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2006, 03:59:47 PM »
And none having to do with Iraq?  Hmmm.  How convenient.  And all wonky money related issues.

That wasn't the question, but to answer your above modifier
Did not have an effective post-saddam plan in place
Did not have back-up plans ready to impliment at a moment's notice
Did not appreciate the level of insurgent blow back, once Saddam was taken out

So much for this "Bush loving worshipper" not being able to come up with even "one" mistake.  Or are you going to modify your questioning even further?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2006, 04:10:29 PM »
October 24, 2006 -- 02:54 PM EST // link)
He even fooled Laura?

Laura Bush, when asked on the Today Show (9/18/06) what she tells people when asked about Iraq: "Well, I say the--exactly what the president says, that we need to stay the course."

The wife really is always the last to know.

Plane

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2006, 06:33:25 PM »
Posted by: Plane
Insert Quote
I President Bush starts thinking that Representative Murtha is right, and suggests bulling back in the style that has been suggested by Mrs. Sheehan.....


This is no reason for rejoicing among the people who want this to happen?


Why would someone get mad at an opponent for coming around to a new way of thinking?
________________________________
Maybe because when Rep. Murtha proposed his redeployment strategy, he was smeared, called a coward on the floor of the House of Representatives by a mindless harpy from Ohio, Jean Schmitt,  reviled as a 'cut'n run' Democrat, and Cindy Sheehan is called a whore and worse.  ANd every one who agrees with them was called an appeaser, traitor, etc.
But when the election comes round and the GOP sees that more people agree with Murtha? 
They suddenly say, "Oh, we've never said "Stay the course."  " 
So you can see why it is a LIE.  A big, god damn lie, only trotted out when they're afraid they might be losing power.

THe truth doesn't matter to the GOP.  Only power. 
Now do you get it?  WHy it matters?  Why words matter?  "Your word is your bond."  Little Georgie needs to learn that.


[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]


So it is personally Bush that is hated , even if he were to reverse course you would hate him just as much?


I am perplexed to learn that it is not what he does or says , it is just personal.

Lanya

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2006, 07:46:06 PM »
Read my post again. 
Read where I object to the president's party calling Murtha names, reviling him.  Reviling anyone who wanted to redeploy outside of Iraq.
That is what I object to.  Especially now for Bush to say "I never was a Stay the Course person" ...that is a lie, and he's simply trying to keep the GOP in power. 

If the president were to come before the whole country and say, "I was wrong.   I DID say we should stay the course.  I DID call Murtha and others like him "cut and run" Democrats.  And now, I see they were right, I was wrong, I got us in a horrible mess, and we have to get out."....

Then you may ask me if he has done enough to make amends.  Do not be surprised if I say no.  But it's a start.
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BT

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2006, 08:20:12 PM »
Quote
Read where I object to the president's party calling Murtha names, reviling him.  Reviling anyone who wanted to redeploy outside of Iraq.

You want to show me where in this paltry attempt to show a "little lie",  where Bush said we should redeploy?

Or are little lies not little lies when spoken by a progressive?


Plane

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Re: Bush: [Weve Always Been the 'Cut and Run' Types]
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2006, 09:08:20 PM »
Read my post again. 
Read where I object to the president's party calling Murtha names, reviling him.  Reviling anyone who wanted to redeploy outside of Iraq.
That is what I object to.  Especially now for Bush to say "I never was a Stay the Course person" ...that is a lie, and he's simply trying to keep the GOP in power. 

If the president were to come before the whole country and say, "I was wrong.   I DID say we should stay the course.  I DID call Murtha and others like him "cut and run" Democrats.  And now, I see they were right, I was wrong, I got us in a horrible mess, and we have to get out."....

Then you may ask me if he has done enough to make amends.  Do not be surprised if I say no.  But it's a start.



Are all Democrats responsible for everything any Democrat says?

President Bush has been a lot more respectfull of Democrats than the Advradge Republican.

So unless you beleive him to be a valve for all Republicans statements your hatred is misplaced.

Could you re- read what Bush himself ever said that made you so mad?

Do you really think that his recent statement is a total reversal?