DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: RoboPoster on August 03, 2010, 10:30:04 PM
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Tying GOP to Bush is Winner for Dems
Greg Sargent, Washington Post
UPDATE, 1:45 p.m.: A Democratic aide points out that the polling memo also contains empirical evidence that if the public is persuaded that voting Republican would be a return to Bush policies, it has a dramatic impact on voter attitudes:If Americans believe that conservatives are espousing a return to the same economic ideas as those of the former President, the dynamic of the debate turns on its head. In two separate split sample questions, we tested President Obama's economic plan against a generic conservative economic plan. When the conservative plan failed to mention President...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2010/08/03/tying_gop_to_bush_is_winner_for_dems_238912.html
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I just can't help but chuckle when Obama etal say that the Republicans are doing nothing, they are the party of nothing. Last I heard, Democrats were the majority in all three branches.
I also know that the majority of their ideas are shut down before they even hit the floor.
I think a bit of honesty goes a long ways here.
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The GOP hasn't nationalized this election like they did in 94 with the Contract with America.
Where is their battle flag? What will they do if they win the House? What will they do if they win both the House and the Senate?
What are they doing to win your vote?
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I have to admit, I am leaning more towards libertarian all the time. I absolutely love what the Tea Movement is doing.
I am not happy with the Republicans and hope that a strong leader steps forward. I am thinking that come Spring, we will see some true leaders step up. Right now, it is getting change in Nov.
I am backing the newbies all the way. There are some exciting people running, many backed by Tea.
I have been for term limits, but now I beg for them.
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I have to admit, I am leaning more towards libertarian all the time. I absolutely love what the Tea Movement is doing.
I am not happy with the Republicans and hope that a strong leader steps forward. I am thinking that come Spring, we will see some true leaders step up. Right now, it is getting change in Nov.
I am backing the newbies all the way. There are some exciting people running, many backed by Tea.
I have been for term limits, but now I beg for them.
You can't hardly go wrong if you vote for conservatives. drop the party. Look who call themselves R, Olympia Snow, Lindsey Graham and John McCain.
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I absolutely love what the Tea Movement is doing.
I am not happy with the Republicans and hope that a strong leader steps forward.
DITTO on both. And if you have any time to spend here in the saloon Miss Kim, watch how the left continues to try to villify the Tea Party as a bunch of racists, yet never once demonstrating the proof of such. Especially given the consistent denouncing of such folks by the Tea Party themselves. It's amazing to watch....the utter and complete level of ignorance on display, while trying to use Occam's razor as the supposed explanation. How convenient, yet consistent. Lack of proof is apparently proof positive.
And again, great to see you posting again, even if its on a minimal level 8)
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And if you have any time to spend here in the saloon Miss Kim, watch how the left continues to try to villify the Tea Party as a bunch of racists, yet never once demonstrating the proof of such.
"Tainting the tea party movement with the charge of racism is proving to be an effective strategy for Democrats. There is no evidence that tea party adherents are any more racist than other Republicans, and indeed many other Americans. But getting them to spend their time purging their ranks and having candidates distance themselves should help Democrats win in November. Having one's opponent rebut charges of racism is far better than discussing joblessness."
Mary Frances Berry Professor of American Social Thought and History, U. Penn.
http://www.politico.com/arena/perm/Mary_Frances_Berry_91E3D9D5-C40D-440C-9D48-1C50CBC60C87.html (http://www.politico.com/arena/perm/Mary_Frances_Berry_91E3D9D5-C40D-440C-9D48-1C50CBC60C87.html)
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In otherwords, its purely a political strategy, devoid of any substance, merely a deflection effort to better Dems chances for maintaining majority status in Nov?
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If advocating equal treatment regardless of race, gender, nation of origin or economic condition is racist so be it.
Let the progressives stake out their advocacy of unequal treatment.
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Works for me
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Who is exciting among the Teapartiers? Rand Paul? Sharon Angle?
It appears to be an assortment of grumpy old farts throwing a tantrum. Strangely, when Juniorbush was president, they did not seem to complain about taxes.
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Probably because Bush actually cut everyone's income tax rates
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Who is exciting among the Teapartiers? Rand Paul? Sharon Angle?
As far as i know there are no Tea Party Candidtes. There are candidates endorsed by local Tea Party groups.
This is not a top down organization, and their model is no different than what Kos did with his Act Blue initiative.
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<<If advocating equal treatment regardless of race, gender, nation of origin or economic condition is racist so be it.>>
That kind of simplistic shit just won't fly any more. Fortunately most Americans live in the real world and can see the results of racism all around them with their own eyes. Equal treatment for all runners in the race, even for the guy who starts with a 20-lb weight strapped to each leg, is bullshit. Most folks can see through Tea Party racism with their eyes shut. Lotsa luck widdat.
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Lotsa luck every trying to validate that asanine claim with actual reality....that ironically those same real world folks also live in
Your opinion on this matter has about as much credibility as largely, .....every other asanine baseless claim you perseverate on
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That kind of simplistic shit just won't fly any more. Fortunately most Americans live in the real world and can see the results of racism all around them with their own eyes. Equal treatment for all runners in the race, even for the guy who starts with a 20-lb weight strapped to each leg, is bullshit. Most folks can see through Tea Party racism with their eyes shut. Lotsa luck widdat.
What 20 pound weight? And what Tea Party racism?
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The 20-lb. weights are the living, continuing consequences of past slavery, racism and Jim Crow. The Tea Party racism is implicit in their opposition to "illegal" immigration and all government programs aimed at redressing the wrongs of American racism.
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The 20-lb. weights are the living, continuing consequences of past slavery, racism and Jim Crow.
Give me examples. Show me the law that says a black man will not be allowed to finish high school, and go on to college? Show me how a white person from the same economic background does not deal with the same disadvantages.
Being against illegal immigration is no more racist than being against tax fraud, It is the act not the actor that is at issue.
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Who is exciting among the Teapartiers? Rand Paul? Sharon Angle?
It appears to be an assortment of grumpy old farts throwing a tantrum. Strangely, when Juniorbush was president, they did not seem to complain about taxes.
When you die please donate your brain to science. it would be worth slicing bits of it in tiny slices to examine. could be damage due to contamination from heavy metals or some other substances might have burrowed into it.The effects seem to be worsening over time.
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The 20-lb. weights are the living, continuing consequences of past slavery, racism and Jim Crow.
Give me examples. Show me the law that says a black man will not be allowed to finish high school, and go on to college? Show me how a white person from the same economic background does not deal with the same disadvantages.
Don't hold your breath. Been asking those questions since the asaine allegations began, and Tee apparently is not going to have that debate, despite this being a debate forum. Have yet to see any such evidence, outside of the occasional Razor rhetoric
Being against illegal immigration is no more racist than being against tax fraud, It is the act not the actor that is at issue.
PRECISELY. Can't count how many times its been referenced that actions speak louder than words. One has to ACT racist to be called a racist. One has to act Chrisitian, to be called a Christian. One has to act like a terrorist, to be called a terrorist. One has to act Muslim, to be called a Muslim. (Could go into the idiot references for some here in the saloon, but I'll refrain for now)
It's the ACTIONS (i.e. EXAMPLES) that validate the claim. Throwing around the implicit crap references the idiocy claim I was alluding to earlier Being against illegal immigration is being against ILLEGAL immigration, simple as that. It has NOTHING to do with one's race. It's illegal to enter this country, from whatever country you're from, if you do it ILLEGALLY
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(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/100803beelertoon_c20100803012024.jpg)
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<<Give me examples. Show me the law that says a black man will not be allowed to finish high school, and go on to college? Show me how a white person from the same economic background does not deal with the same disadvantages.>>
Where you been for the past 45 years? The major laws against racial discrimination were passed in 1964 and 1965. But you knew that. The discrimination of the 21st century is societal, being the result of the preceding century of legal racial discrimination and the years of slavery that preceded it. The results are in every statistic you want to look at: percentage of young black males sucked into the criminal system, sentencing discrepancies between whites and blacks in otherwise similar circumstances, dropout rates, graduate degree rates, etc. There is no measure of social progress that I am aware of that shows blacks performing on an equal basis with whites. Unless you want to explain that as an inherent racial inferiority, there is no explanation that I know of other than the direct and indirect results of past and present American racism.
<<Being against illegal immigration is no more racist than being against tax fraud, It is the act not the actor that is at issue. >>
That is also bullshit. Many laws are routinely violated (the prohibition against torture, the obligation to prosecute torturers, tax evasion, commercial piracy of intellectual property, etc. etc.) but you don't see Tea Party protests against any of those forms of lawlessness. The only protest you see from the Tea Party are against "government spending" (code for opposition to benefits which disproportionately benefit visible minorities) and of course "illegal immigration," obviously a racist-inspired movement aimed at producing a whiter America by the removal of large numbers of Hispanics.
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Yep, definative proof of liberal receptions problems
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Where you been for the past 45 years? The major laws against racial discrimination were passed in 1964 and 1965. But you knew that
That would be at a minimum 2.25 generations ago. What is today's excuse?
BTW please cite one racist law still on the books designed to keep the black man down.
The real problem is cultural. Not racism.
<<Being against illegal immigration is no more racist than being against tax fraud, It is the act not the actor that is at issue. >>
That is also bullshit.
I take it then that as a avowed non racist, you are in favor of illegal immigration?
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The only protest you see from the Tea Party are against "government spending" (code for opposition to benefits which disproportionately benefit visible minorities) and of course "illegal immigration," obviously a racist-inspired movement aimed at producing a whiter America by the removal of large numbers of Hispanics.
I have to laugh every time you admit that your accusations require special interpretation of your opposition.
If our words mean only what you wish them to mean why do we bother to speak english?
We could speak any other language that you do not understand just as well.
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:D
Touche', Plane
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<<That [the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts] would be at a minimum 2.25 generations ago. What is today's excuse?>>
The continuing intergenerational effects of past racist policies superimposed on continuing racist oppression that the law is unable to obliterate from the American social fabric, obviously.
<<BTW please cite one racist law still on the books designed to keep the black man down.>>
Racism continues in America as a societal problem, not a legal problem. If the absence of racist laws were taken as proof of the absence of racism in America, the presence of laws penalizing criminal conduct could be taken as proof of the absence of criminality in America. Your "challenge" is ridiculous and absurd. The fact is that the old racist laws in America were proof of, and depended upon, a very high degree of racism in America. The absence of such laws today indicates some waning of the original racist sentiment, but to go from the conclusion that racism isn't strong enough any more to be preserved in the laws of the land to the conclusion that racism has lost all of its force is ludicrous.
<<The real problem is cultural. Not racism.>>
IMHO, the real problem is racism which has, through generations of slavery and then Jim Crow, shaped the cultural problems that you are presumably referring to. So that the blacks are doubly victimized today by racism - - first, by the direct results of ongoing racist conduct of the officers of city, state and federal government and secondly by their own negative cultural traits which themselves are the product of racism.
<<I take it then that as a avowed non racist, you are in favor of illegal immigration?>>
No, I am not. I think every country has a right to control its own borders, by an immigration policy geared to the needs of its people, but that policy should be enacted in a neutral, non-racist way. The problem with the Tea Party is they want to take over the enforcement of the immigration laws in existence for obviously racist purposes. There is no other federal legislation that they are anxious to intervene in enforcing. The signs and comments observed at numerous Tea Party rallies is clear evidence of the racist intent behind the Tea Parties and the efforts of the organizers to "clean up their act" by attempting to cover up the racism is nothing more than whitewashing their own unseemly behaviour to disguise its foulness and offensiveness from non-racist, moderate and/or minority voters.
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There is no other federal legislation that they are anxious to intervene in enforcing.
Can you give examples of other federal laws that are as obviouslynon enforced as immigration violations?
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<<Can you give examples of other federal laws that are as obviously non-enforced as immigration violations?>>
Well, obviously the first that comes to mind is the legal obligation imposed on the Federal government by the US ratification of UNCAT, to prosecute torturers and the blatant refusal of the head of state to do so. On the absolutely ludicrous grounds that the prosecution of torturers would be "looking backward." (Can anybody provide an example of the prosecution of any crime that would not be "looking backward?" How does one prosecute a crime "looking forward" - - charge the guy with offences not yet committed, but that he will commit within some delineated future time, say the next five years?) That is totally and blatantly contrary to existing legal obligations and yet the MSM has consigned the entire issue to limbo.
Federal officers are very reluctant to enforce marijuana laws in weed-friendly cities like Oakland, because of the non-cooperation of local law enforcement.
Besides who is to say that the federal immigration laws really are "non-enforced?" Where are the stats on year-by-year arrests, convictions and/or deportations? Is the enforcement rate rising or declining? What proportion of federal outlays are spent on border protection and how does that percentage compare with the same stats for other countries of comparable wealth and development, in absolute terms, and on a per-frontier-mile basis, with coastlines included? There's no evidence at all that the federal immigration laws are in fact "non-enforced." It's really hilarious how these Tea Party morons are so worked up about "big government" and "taxes" but at the same time are crying in their beer about the relatively puny status of border patrols (which they are happy to supplement with their own armed presence) and probably never give a thought to the costs of more vigorous enforcement.
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There's no evidence at all that the federal immigration laws are in fact "non-enforced."
If they were enforced, why would states like Arizona and countless other states that have similar laws in the works, feel the need to expend the manpower and the dollars necessary to do the feds job?
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Didn't you get the memo Bt? It's because they have a racist legislature, and racist population majority looking to make their states all white. sheeeeesh
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<<If they were enforced, why would states like Arizona and countless other states that have similar laws in the works, feel the need to expend the manpower and the dollars necessary to do the feds job?>>
Because it's a partisan effort by Republicans continuing to pander to the racist vote. Obviously.
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Because it's a partisan effort by Republicans continuing to pander to the racist vote. Obviously.
I think not enforcing laws because it might offend base constituencies more closely meets your pandering accusation.
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Many other states, maybe. COUNTLESS other states, no. There are only 50 states, that is a figure far below countless. At least, MOST people can count beyond 50.
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Many other states, maybe. COUNTLESS other states, no. There are only 50 states, that is a figure far below countless. At least, MOST people can count beyond 50.
Clever
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Many other states, maybe. COUNTLESS other states, no. There are only 50 states, that is a figure far below countless. At least, MOST people can count beyond 50.
Our President counts 57 states.
In all but seven of these states Arizonas new law is popular with a majority.
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That kind of simplistic shit just won't fly any more. Fortunately most Americans live in the real world and can see the results of racism all around them with their own eyes. Equal treatment for all runners in the race, even for the guy who starts with a 20-lb weight strapped to each leg, is bullshit. Most folks can see through Tea Party racism with their eyes shut. Lotsa luck widdat.
What 20 pound weight? And what Tea Party racism?
Just take it as he says it .
People with their eyes shut see racism.
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The problem with the Tea Party is they want to take over the enforcement of the immigration laws in existence for obviously racist purposes. There is no other federal legislation that they are anxious to intervene in enforcing. The signs and comments observed at numerous Tea Party rallies is clear evidence of the racist intent behind the Tea Parties and the efforts of the organizers to "clean up their act" by attempting to cover up the racism is nothing more than whitewashing their own unseemly behaviour to disguise its foulness and offensiveness from non-racist, moderate and/or minority voters.
In opposition to Mexican ,Central American or South American illeagal immagration .
What are the races you are talking about?
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I wasn't talking about races, I was talking about racism. In this case, directed at Hispanics.