DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on August 18, 2010, 09:39:55 PM
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Former Dem Pres Candidate & DNC Chairman Howard Dean: Ground Zero Mosque a "real affront to people who lost their lives."
Howard Dean Mosque Compromise (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2GzuAw46Os#ws)
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forced to the center
hedging his bets in case opportunity arises from a wounded Obama
dems might be seeing blood in the water and Obama might be going down
watch for posturing
watch for opportunists
dirtbag Harry went to the center to fool electors -- but they won't be fooled
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Does this mean Pelosi is going to launch an investigation into Reid & Dean??
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Does this mean Pelosi is going to launch an investigation into Reid & Dean??
the people that want the mosque only want freedom of religion for everyone
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I thought we had a Constitution that already provided for that
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the people that want the mosque only want freedom of religion for everyone
The people who want freedom of religion, don't necessarily want the mosque, but that is part of the freedom of religion package.
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I thought we had a Constitution that already provided for that
They can build it in a different spot they just want to piss 2/3 of us off. great way to get people to like you or dislike you.
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Well, like a recent article I posted, if the "idea" was that such a Mosque would bring calm, diversity, and brotherly love....it's failed miserably, having had the polar opposite effect, and not a shovel has hit dirt yet.
So, that begs the question, is there an alternate reason to not budge?
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(http://www.lucianne.com/images/lucianne/DailyPhoto/2010-08-18-GAPVA.jpg)
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The Constitution sure does give you rightwing fanatics headaches.
Whether there is a mosque or not will not make one teensy whit of difference to anyone. This is aq far less important item than flag-burning, and that was insignificant as well.
You clowns should just grow up.
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The Constitution sure does give you rightwing fanatics headaches.
You clowns should just grow up.
Yeah the the current Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid
and former DNC Chairman Howard Dean are bunch-o-ratwingers! ::)
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The Constitution sure does give you rightwing fanatics headaches. Whether there is a mosque or not will not make one teensy whit of difference to anyone.
Didn't realize the 911 families are being so irrational.....or the vast majority of the country were RW fanatics, which includes over 50% of Democrats. Who da thunk it?
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This has become a political football. But no matter what is said, it is of no real importance.
I am not a politician, and have no reason to play this stupid game. I suppose it must make sense to everyone to weigh in on some particular point of view if they think it will bring them votes.
I agree that this mosque is not any sort of PR plus for Muslims outside the Muslim community. It would be better for their image to build it elsewhere, in my opinion. But it really doesn't matter what I think. I have no say in what people do with their money, and in return they have no say in what I do with mine. It seems like a fair trade.
I COULD walk into Denny's and tell all those omelet and sausage eaters that they are ingesting too much cholesterol, I could put nasty notes on the windshields of Hummers about guzzling above and beyond the call of duty, I could make fun of simpletons in the mall who believe for some wacky reason that there is no reason why a T-shirt should be considered infinitely more stylish if the name "HOLLISTER" is printed upon it. People do so many stupid things I could spend a lifetime in a totally futile campaign to educate them, but why bother? I would just annoy people and they would not be convinced of my point of view. They would rightly consider me a pest and buttinsky.
The truth is that it will not affect my life or almost anyone else's if there is a mosque or community center in an old Burlington Coat Factory building. There is no danger that attacks will be staged from there anymore than from some nearby hotel or airport or anywhere else. The government cannot pronounce the site of 9-11, let alone the old coat factory site "hallowed ground". Our government is not capable of hallowing anything. So whether the mosque (or whatever one chooses to call it) is built is entirely up to the property owners. They have no obligation to please me or any of you.
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The Constitution sure does give you rightwing fanatics headaches.
Whether there is a mosque or not will not make one teensy whit of difference to anyone. This is aq far less important item than flag-burning, and that was insignificant as well.
You clowns should just grow up.
that coming form a 67 year old man that watches cartoons.
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Cartoons that have zillions more intelligence in them than your empty head will ever had, I would add.
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Cartoons that have zillions more intelligence in them than your empty head will ever had, I would add.
if you are so damn smart why did you vote for Obama?
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Recall that great line..."If Obama was the answer, how stupid was the question?"
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Our government is not capable of hallowing anything.
Obama made the claim that Ground Zero is "hallowed ground". Several times, IIRC.
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"Ground zero is, indeed, hallowed ground," (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/41060.html)
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Well, like a recent article I posted, if the "idea" was that such a Mosque would bring calm, diversity, and brotherly love....it's failed miserably, having had the polar opposite effect, and not a shovel has hit dirt yet.
So, that begs the question, is there an alternative reason to not budge?
Debra Burlingame, whose brother Charles Burlingame was the pilot of the plane the terrorists hijacked and flew into the Pentagon, said she was furious over the president's remarks. (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703960004575427992237914442.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories)
"I'm so angry. I believe this president has abandoned the American people. This isn't a fight about religious freedom for Muslims. No one has argued they don't have the property rights. This is about a project led by someone who says he's trying to build bridges and bring the community together and he's chosen probably the worst place in America and the worst way to do it.''
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From the Gettysburg Address:\
"But in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead who struggled here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract."
If Lincoln said that he and his government were incapable of hallowing Gettysburg, then I don't think that Obama or Bush, or anyone can "hallow" Ground Zero. Or even the Pentagon. Strange that we are not hearing about the PENTAGON being hallowed. Hell it even has its own mosque, right inside the Pentagon, Muslims are praying to Allah RIGHT NOW only inches away from where brave US servicemen died.
Of course, Gettysburg was designated a National Monument or Battlefield, which is as close as a sectarian government can come to making a site "holy".
I do not believe that Obama or any president has the ability to "hallow" anything. I can't see how anyone can believe that he could.
The soldiers at Gettysburg died for a cause. The people at the WTC (and at the Pentagon and in that plane) were just bloody unlucky.
How about the victims of the Sultana? should we call that place in the Mississippi where its boilers blew up "hallowed" as well?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Sultana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Sultana)
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From the Gettysburg Address:\
lol....and this refutes Obama saying it....how again?? You said it can't be done by the Government, yet your presicious Obama & the Government just did
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No, he didn't, because he couldn't.
There is a place where Muslims pray in the Pentagon, built at government expense and with your tax money. Only yards away from where brave soldiers and sailors died. Go get upset over that.
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/05/muslims_infiltrate_pentagon (http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/08/05/muslims_infiltrate_pentagon)
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lol....and this refutes Obama saying it....how again?? You said it can't be done by the Government, yet your presicious Obama & the Government just did
Actually, I think both Lincoln and Obama are in agreement on this. The government did not "hallow" the ground; those who lost their lives there did so.
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Well deduced
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Hallowed my ass. If all it takes to "hallow" a place is that a whole shitload of people got whacked there at one time or another, the whole fucking planet is probably "hallowed ground" by now.
Why doesn't everyone cut the bullshit and admit that they don't want to see a mosque at Ground Zero because Ground Zero is a focal point for whipping up anti-Muslim hatred and allowing a mosque to be built there indicates some degree of forgiveness and/or tolerance for the Muslim faith that the haters do not wish to concede? That the mosque on the site would kind of dilute the message of unrelenting hatred that they hope to generate from the site?
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Why doesn't everyone cut the bullshit and admit that they don't want to see a mosque at Ground Zero because Ground Zero is a focal point for whipping up anti-Muslim hatred and allowing a mosque to be built there indicates some degree of forgiveness and/or tolerance for the Muslim faith that the haters do not wish to concede? That the mosque on the site would kind of dilute the message of unrelenting hatred that they hope to generate from the site?
I don't think it is as simple as that. And i don't see a difference between you hijacking the issue to further your own agenda and the actions of those you accuse of doing the same.
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<<I don't think it is as simple as that. And i don't see a difference between you hijacking the issue to further your own agenda and the actions of those you accuse of doing the same. >>
Let me guess what your dictionary says about hijacking.
"Hijacking the issue" (def.) = cutting through the BS and identifying the crux of the matter.
Yes, just as I thought.
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Good luck in actually validating that "crux"
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Hallowed my ass. If all it takes to "hallow" a place is that a whole shitload of people got whacked there at one time or another, the whole fucking planet is probably "hallowed ground" by now.
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That is almost certainly true, at least of the most settled parts of the earth. Near my home town, there is a place down by the bend of the Missouri River where the Sacs and Foxes pretty much wiped out the last of the Missouri Indians, a Siouan group that ended up merging with the Otoes arpund 1798, before any of the settlers arrived.
It is a good place to find arrowheads.
With regards to the attitude of some of the people about the 9-11 attack, it reminds me of the old cartoon Rebel soldier a squat and raggedy little guy with a Stars and Bars Flag and the motto "Forgit Hell!"
Admitting that Muslims have the same right to have a place of worship as anyone else would be, for them, like admitting defeat, and of course that means no vengeance.
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Admitting that Muslims have the same right to have a place of worship as anyone else would be, for them, like admitting defeat, and of course that means no vengeance.
Love refuting points no one is making?? Because of course you can demonstrate the plethora of quotes that Muslims don't have such a right, by folks like Dean & Reid. Right??
Word of advice.....try to inhibit this knee jerk reaction to lump everyone that disagrees with you as some ratwing reactionary. You won't look quite so.....idiotic
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Sorting through the BS and trying to fine some coherent, sensible reason to oppose the GZ Mosque. Impossible task.
<<Former Dem Pres Candidate & DNC Chairman Howard Dean: Ground Zero Mosque a "real affront to people who lost their lives.">>
Totally stupid remark, since nobody who lost their lives at Ground Zero had had the foresight to appoint Dean as their spokesman, so he’s really speaking only for himself. Basically all he’s really saying is that building the mosque is an affront to HIM. BFD, since not building the mosque would be an affront to somebody else. The issue shouldn’t be, who’s gonna be affronted (because however the issue is decided, somebody’s gonna be affronted) but what’s wrong with building the mosque on grounds other than who will or won’t be “affronted.”
<< . . . they just want to piss 2/3 of us off>>
Sorta like putting Confederate battle flags on the old pick-up truck? Or over the State capitol? Sounds to me like it comes well within the framework of First Amendment rights. Or are you against anyone having the right to piss off 2/3 of the American people? When you think how many people in the world are pissed off at the U.S.A., 2/3 seems like a pretty modest amount of people to want to piss off, doesn’t it? And of course if your mind-reading skills are off by only 50%, they (the GZ Mosque people) really want to befriend Americans, and not piss them off. Which is a good reason why arguments based on mind-reading probably aren’t the most convincing of arguments. For example, I could easily penetrate the mind of the mind-readers themselves and say that they just want to whip up religious hatred of Muslims. Where would it all end?
<<This isn't a fight about religious freedom for Muslims. No one has argued they don't have the property rights. This is about a project led by someone who says he's trying to build bridges and bring the community together and he's chosen probably the worst place in America and the worst way to do it.''>> [quote from the pea-brained sister of one of the pilots murdered in the Sept. 11 attacks]
People don’t want them to put up a mosque in a place where nobody would object to a church or synagogue, but it’s “not about religious freedom for Muslims.” LMFAO at the dumb twit. Then what IS it about?
<< he's chosen probably the worst place in America . . .>>
It’s an OK place for anything else, a pizza parlour, a movie theatre, offices, a library, a church or a synagogue - - only for a mosque is it “the worst place in America.” But it’s not about the religious freedom of Muslims. Right. Does the phrase “transparently stupid” mean anything to you, lady? How about “venomously bigoted?”
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Hallowed my ass. If all it takes to "hallow" a place is that a whole shitload of people got whacked there at one time or another, the whole fucking planet is probably "hallowed ground" by now.
Why doesn't everyone cut the bullshit and admit that they don't want to see a mosque at Ground Zero because Ground Zero is a focal point for whipping up anti-Muslim hatred and allowing a mosque to be built there indicates some degree of forgiveness and/or tolerance for the Muslim faith that the haters do not wish to concede? That the mosque on the site would kind of dilute the message of unrelenting hatred that they hope to generate from the site?
Is a Mosque that casts its shadow onto ground zero useless for the purpose of "whipping up anti-Muslim hatred "?If whipping up these feelings is someones goal the builders of this Mosque are playing right into their hands.
It is true that they have a constitutionally protected right that includes building a mosque right there , or even closer.
I imagine could have a right to build right on the old foundation of the WTC if it were for sale.
But it is not smart .
Also the offended have a right to be offended and a constitutionally protected right to say so.
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You have every right to protest, just as Tee says. The same thing is true for putting a Stars and Bars flag of monumental proportions and driving it through the Black part of town, or putting on swastika armbands and marching around the Synagogue or cemetery
But it is a bigoted and stupid thing to do. You have a constitutional right to bigotry and stupidity.
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Sorting through the BS and trying to fine some coherent, sensible reason to oppose the GZ Mosque. Impossible task......<snip>
But it is a bigoted and stupid thing to do. You have a constitutional right to bigotry and stupidity.
(http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/8-18-10roscharchCMYj20100819010850.jpg)
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"You have a constitutional right to bigotry and stupidity".
For as long as you have been doing bigotry and stupidity clearly you learned long ago about your rights.