DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on July 14, 2015, 01:17:53 PM
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Brought to you, by the same shrewd negotiator...that traded an American traitor, for FIVE top Taliban commanders!
So....lets break this so called "deal" down.
Iran gets billions in cash from this deal.
China and Russia get billions from this deal in new weapons sales to Iran.
What does the US get?
A lick and promise that Iran will behave?
Ha Ha yeah like that will happen as they chant "DEATH TO AMERICA".
So once again Trump is correct...we make deals that enrich everyone involved except the United States.
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You are incapable of understanding sooooo many issues.
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What's to understand? This is so much like the effort for Israel to hand over more of its land for a "promise of peace"
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yeah sure BOZO-Boehner!
BOEHNER: "WE WILL DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP "IRAN NUKE DEAL"
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/07/14/boehner-we-will-do-everything-we-can-to-stop-iran-nuke-deal/
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These clowns have not even READ the thing and they are against it.
They are puppets of Netanyahu, not American leaders.
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Naaa...the puppets are the ones taking Obama at his word that this was a "good deal", especially given his track record of truth. For who exactly??
You do realize that Obama, IN HIS OWN WORDS, made it clear that with any deal:
- Inspections were to be anywhere, anytime, unimpeded
- They were to come clean on all past nuclear activity
- Sanctions were to be GRADUALLY lifted based on compliance, NOT universally lifed with a promise of compliance
- Non-nuclear sanctions were to remain seperate from these sanctions
Not to mention that Iran IS STILL HOLDING SEVERAL AMERICANS, including a Washington Post reporter. THAT should have been item #1, that any deal brokered demonstrate Iran's "good will" by releasing them
Folks like yourself seem to forget that IRAN IS THE BAD GUY HERE. They were the ones that were being put under the screws to comply with the International Community. And yet, this has been approached like some co-ed volleyball game, where the weak team was given all the strong players, and the strong team has to play with 1 hand tied behind its back...just to get the weak team to play ball
Obama's journey now appears complete. He screwed the country with Obamination Care & his unconstitutional Immigration crap, and now the rest of the globe with this arguably worst "deal" since Neville Chamberlain's. Yep, his "legacy" is pretty much set. Bravo for the 1st Black President
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The negotiations were never about Iranian-American citizens held by Iran or recognizing Israel.
If the other countries involved in sanctions decide to abandon sanctions, what choice is there?
War is not a real choice here. Iran has three times the population of Iraq.
No American should die because Netanyahu is upset.
Before Iran was "The Bad Guy" the US and the UK deposed the elected leader of Iran, a secular man named Mossadeagh. Then they put that nasty little Shah on the throne and gave him advice on how to remain as a dictator for 25 years. It was the Shah who agreed not to have nukes, and no Iranian now alive agreed to this.
Iran and the US are BOTH bad guys.
Yeah, you have to mention that Obama is the first BA}LACK president. But no, you are not a racist.
What a bunch of clowns you guys are!
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The negotiations were never about Iranian-American citizens held by Iran or recognizing Israel.
Never claimed they were, Dr Deflection. I'm claiming that they SHOULD have been made as part of the deal to demonstrate some assemblence that Iran would comply with something, outside of just their say so
War is not a real choice here. Iran has three times the population of Iraq.
Why does the left keep thinking that without rolling over to any Iranian resistance, the ONLY other alternative would have been war?? Why's that? Sanctions were working. Heavier sanctions would have worked that much better. It's what brought Iran to the table, to begin with. Using the world's banking to literally freeze so much of Iran's assets & income streams would have been just as effective as some smart bombs over some strategic nuclear facility.
No American should die because Netanyahu is upset.
And no American would
Iran and the US are BOTH bad guys.
And THAT my friends, is why this country is so screwed. To actually believe we're right there with Iran, as it relates to how bad we are. And to think there are those in political office that share that mindset, including our current appeaser-n-chief, who apparently can't wait to roll over for our enemies, while giving a middle finger to our allies
Yeah, you have to mention that Obama is the first BA}LACK president. But no, you are not a racist.
What a bunch of clowns you guys are!
Is the sun not yellow?? Is the sky not blue. Is Obama not the 1st Black President?? How is making a statement of fact, "racist"? Oh yea, I forget...it's the liberal playbook....ANY cricisim of Obama MUST be racist in origin. Talk about clown think :o
Now.....You do realize that Obama, IN HIS OWN WORDS, made it clear that with any deal:
- Inspections were to be anywhere, anytime, unimpeded
- They were to come clean on all past nuclear activity
- Sanctions were to be GRADUALLY lifted based on compliance, NOT universally lifed with a promise of compliance
- Non-nuclear sanctions were to remain seperate from these sanctions
LEADERSHIP STARTED THERE. Anything less is demonstrating an overt lack of such
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Speaking of Obama and being Black.
Yes Obama is half Black
But Obama does not share the identity or cultural experience of most American Blacks.
Obama's Mother was White.
Obama's Father was Kenyan.
Obama was raised primarily by well off White Grandparents.
So Obama has no real connection with African Americans that are descendants from slaves and that experience.
Obama wasn't raised in the hood....he never experienced poverty like so many American Blacks.
He is not really "one of them".
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(http://s17.postimg.org/5sopzmyj3/Netty.jpg)
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The first problem is that Iran is on record as desiring our death.
Who thinks they don't mean it?
A related problem is that they consider us "Satan" and thus it is no sin to lie to us, hoodwink us, and /or cheat on any deals we might make.
I hope that this 100 page agreement is written on really good paper , thus it will be worth something.
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Yeah, Obama is not a "real" Black. But he has been married to one for over 20 years. He has two daughters that are also Black.
Are you sure you are a "real" American, CU4?
Have you ever roped a cow? Gone on a cattle drive? Drilled a wildcat well? Defended the Alamo? I question that you are even a real Texan.
The money that Iran gets was money that belonged to them, in payment for oil they sold earlier, and seized as part of the embargo. It is not money they took out of CU4's pocket.
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he has been married to one for over 20 years. He has two daughters that are also Black.
what does who one marries have to do with their racial status?
Obama is not from any American slave connection or descend-ency.
Obama had a white Mother, a Kenyan Father, & was raised by well off white grandparents.
Are you sure you are a "real" American, CU4?
I think so....but I don't really care one way or the other.
I'd rather be a citizen of a seceded Texas nation.
America hardly exists anymore and won't for very much longer.
And anyway I don't use my American status to push a false political narrative.
Obama has no connection to inner-city Blacks.
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It's what brought Iran to the table, to begin with.
SIRS....the international community is removing the sanctions & Iran is keeping its nuclear program!
Wow....what a big win for us! ::)
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Well Obama did say we could keep our insurance.......I mean, this was a good deal
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Like you had actually read the agreement.
Just more rightwing bullshit.
Let's let Netanyahu run the State Department, yeah, that'll work.
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This has squat to do with Netanyahu. I tell you what, YOU produce some report(s) that demonstrate that what I or Cu4 have posted, refutes what has been presented here. Your say so, as Obama's, carries very little in credibility at this point.
And simply more snark talk and derogatory deflections about Netanyahu simply reinforce that you indeed have nothing in that regards
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"Don't worry, guys...President JV-squad-Red-Line McKeep-Your-Plan has GOT THIS"
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I do not recall Barack Obama ever saying that he was an "inner city Black". However, he lived and worked in Chicago for decades and he knows as much about American Blacks as George Bush, who was born in Connecticut of Yankee parents, knows about Texans. And of course, President Obama is married to an authentic African American woman. He has managed to convince enough Americans that he is autherntically American enough for them to elect him to the presidency for the maximum permitted number of terms.
I fail to see why you are hung up over this.
Like everyone on this planet, Barack Obama did not choose his parents, his birthplace, or the people who raised him.
No state is going to secede, the US is not going to split up into pieces.
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Iranian Government laughing their way to the bank, courtesy of our Appeaser-n-Chief. Soon to be awash in everything they could possibly need...Money, Weapons, and most importantly, Time. His legacy now set. This country may have even been better off had we had an Affirmative Action policy in place for President. Definately couldn't have done much worse
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President Barack Obama will go down as one of our greatest presidents.
You are incapable of recognizing reality.
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President Barack Obama will go down as one of our greatest presidents.
You are incapable of recognizing reality.
In what reality are you observing greatness in this Whitehouse?
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President Barack Obama will go down as one of our greatest presidents.
You are incapable of recognizing reality.
You're right....I don't recognize alternate realities, where up is down, right is left, and wrong is right....or that Obama will be one of our greatest. He's lowered the bar so far, that even Joe the Plumber would make a better President, at this point. Barak Chamberlain.....the world now officially enters the arena that largely only us Americans were unfortunate enough to have to endure with Obamination Care & his unconstitutional executive action Immigration ploys
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You are unable to judge Obama, sirs.
It will be obvious in twenty or thirty years that President Obama was an exemplary president./
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Thank you for my chuckle of the day
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(http://s14.postimg.org/ynizt81mp/Pitiful_Deal_NRD_6001.jpg)
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(http://s16.postimg.org/u3x0lubyd/11746393_1004259042928260_779925268_o_1024x6781.jpg)
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(http://s27.postimg.org/b8zwff99v/Investors.jpg)
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So....SoS Kerry proclaims that Iran WON'T spend any of the $150 BILLION unfrozen monies on terrorist activities because.......they said they wouldn't, and that the UN Resolution says they won't.
Did he used to sell used cars, before he married rich?
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......and you know what's interesting about this debacle of a "deal", that its such a win, win, win, win, win for Iran, that the only ones that could really throw a monkey wrench into just how great this "deal" is for Iran, would be if the mullahs were so stupid to not embrace what's been given to them. Seriously.... , if they play nice for the next 10 years, by sticking to what they signed, & comply, they’ll make out like bandits economically while gaining the west’s endorsement to become a full nuclear power at the end. What a perfect result to Obama's legacy, for the nation that still declares Death to America
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This is Iran's money. There are other treaties that prevent them from spending it on Hezbollah.
This appears to be the best deal they are going to get. The alternative is war. The US cannot control other countries lifting sanctions forever.
The US and the IAEA have devices and systems that can detect nuclear devices that the ratbag, Zionist-kissing right does not understand.
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This is Iran's money.
And Capone had his money. "Bad guys" don't get their monies back, nor should they
There are other treaties that prevent them from spending it on Hezbollah.
WORDS ON A PIECE OF PAPER MEAN NOTHING,, ESPECIALLY TO A COUNTRY RICH IN TERRORIST CONNECTIONS. UNLESS THERE ARE SERIOUS (WHICH CAN INCLUDE MILITARY) REPERCUSSIONS, should they be found in violation, NOTHING PREVENTS THEM FROM SPENDING IT ON HEZBOLLAH. There was a treaty that Nazi Germany signed, that "prevented them from spending on their military expansion", and we see how well that worked out.
This appears to be the best deal they are going to get. The alternative is war.
NO, IT WASN'T THE ALTERNATIVE, but yes, it was the best deal.....Iran could have ever dreamed of
The US cannot control other countries lifting sanctions forever.
The U.S. HAD THE LEVERAGE, with the weight of the international community, and the most of the surrounding Arab nations, that are directly affected. They could have maintained sanctions, even strengthened them until Iran was forced to comply or watch its economy implode.
Instead, Obama blows past Congress, in that it's CONGRESS'S CONSTITUTIONAL ROLE TO RATIFY TREATIES, and punts this to the UN and the detached European nations, who can't wait to stick it to Israel. It's "not their problem or back door" anyways, so what's it to them, if Iran goes nuclear.
The US and the IAEA have devices and systems that can detect nuclear devices that the ratbag, Zionist-kissing right does not understand.
Yea, I think its called a mushroom cloud.
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You are still full of shit, I see.
Nuking Israel to return the Palestinians land to them is clearly not a workable plan.
And Iran did not steal any money. They are not thieves.
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Who ever claimed nuking Israel would be the 1st step to returning so-called "Palestinian lands"? :o
The issue here is Iran is the bad guy. We've placed sanctions of a plethora of countries and regimes, who's monies is technically theirs. A bad guy doesn't get to keep their monies. Especially one who's on record as supporting terrorist activities, which in turn, KILL AMERICANS. THEY ARE WORSE THAN MERE THIEVES
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Like someone gave you the job of Supreme Judge of the Universe.
If Iran is not going to USE their nuclear weapon, then what is the point?
The fact is that the only way other than a mutual agreement is war, and attacking Iran would simply convince the many Iranians that do not see a need for a nuclear weapon that it is necessary for them to have one to prevent sanctions and more attacks. And in the long run, it makes it MORE probable that they would develop one.
It is not like they bomb Iran and it moves to a different neighborhood. It is not like the US can occupy Iran.
This is more about Netanyahu's ego than anything else.
And it needs a good whacking.
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Like someone gave you the job of Supreme Judge of the Universe.
Dr Deflection, strikes again ::)
If Iran is not going to USE their nuclear weapon, then what is the point?
To destroy Israel & any Sunni led nations that might get in their way. Palestinians are mere fodder to the intent of the folks that run Iran
The fact is that the only way other than a mutual agreement is war, and....
....and NO, ITS NOT the "only way". When the war with Germany & Japan came to an end, it wasn't some neatly arranged "mutual agreement". It was "this is how its going to go down". We had the absolute economic screws to Iran, with the sanctions in place. Even with their oil, their economy was near full Greece-like collapse. Instead of using that leverage, to make them deal from a position of weakness, we largely gave Iran EVERYTHING they could possibly have hoped for, and in the end, they still get to aquire their nuclear arsenal. And what did the "good guys" get? A "promise" to be nice for 10years, and then all bets are off. Yea, that was sure a "good deal"........for Iran
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The US cannot impose sanctions alone, and after this agreement, other countries will go back to trading with Iran.
It is not possible to defeat Iran as Japan and Germany were defeated.
That is just totally absurd.
Iran is not going to destroy any nations.
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The Sanctions that HAD BEEN IMPOSED were not U.S. alone. We had the leverage of keeping them in place. "Had" being the key word there, as Obama pissed that leverage away, in order to embrace his Neville Chamberlain legacy
Not to mention, Iran had been defeated as well...economically. We absolutely could have imposed mandates on them, that they would have had to adhere to, much like Germany & Japan were made to, or face more more abusive repercussions (NO, NOT WAR, though strategic military strikes on military targets would absolutely be fair game, as well as an increase in sanctions)
Not to mention that Iran is on record as proclaiming their intention of wanting to destroy the nation of Israel. None of that is hardly absurd.....especially if in posession of nuclear tipped missles
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So far, no one has officially agreed on anything.
You seem to think that Iran can be expected to simply accept every condition that Netanyahu and everyone opposed to Iran wants, and that is clearly not the case.
You know nothing whatever about diplomacy or the Middle East or anything else.
All you "know" is hateobama, hateobama. hateobama. It is pitiful to watch you flail helplessly about in your abysmal ignorance.
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It has squat to do with what Neanyahu would impose, but on what the international community would impose. Yet again, another deflection attempt
Apparently all you know is hatecheney, hatebush, hatereagan, hatebibi, hateanythingeverything republican. It is pitiful to watch you flail helplessly about in your abysmal ignorance, in order to throw insult after insult after 3rd grade potty mouth insult, minus any assemblence of rational thought ::)
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This is so much like the effort for Israel to hand over more of its land for a "promise of peace"
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Gaza was NEVER "Israeli land" not even in the Old Testament. And they left it because too many Israeli soldiers were getting killed in Gaza and the Israeli public pressured them to do so.
Israel is not giving anything. It is taking more and more land and water resources every day.
Netanyahu has a majority in the Knesset only because he has made a deal with the fanatical ultra religious parties: the guys who will throw rocks at your windshield for driving on Shabbos or at your daughter for wearing a tank top.
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Deft, albeit transparent attempt to change the subject. But let's placate it......just a little. It's always amazing how those who are so antisemitic, continue to ignore why Israel has Gaza. The inferrence in general conversation, such as this, is that Israel simply took it, in some grasp of extending their power.....WHEN IN REALITY, they were defending themselves from enemies that had them surrounded, and not only did they manage to defend themselves, but took lands that the attackers were using, to BETTER defend themselves.
So, until you start belly aching about the need for the U.S. to give back California to the Medican Government, and the rest of the country west of the Mississippi back to the Native Indians, you have no leg to stand on in demanding that Isreal return Gaza, or any other lands they took AS A RESULT OF WAR, IN WHICH THEY WERE ATTEMPTING TO DEFEND THEIR VERY EXISTANCE
Not to mention the folks that Israel is trying to defend themselves from rountinely stone women with the mere accusation of adultery and throw homosexuals off the top of buildings
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Israel withdrew from Gaza due to public pressure from the parents of drafted soldiers in the occupation force. This was not done out of compassion, it was done because the government at the time could not have held its coalition together without getting the troops out of Gaza, just as earlier they had to get out of Lebanon.
Gaza was never, ever part of Israel. The Israelis took it by conquest after a war and decided to keep it. After all, it is Mediterranean seafront property.
Judaism is one thing, Zionism is another. It is not "anti Semitic" to oppose Zionism. Many Jews are anti Zionists. And Arabs (including Palestinians) are Semites as well.
AIPAC (American Israeli Political Action Committee) does everything it can to paste the label of Anti Semitic on anyone who opposes the Netanyahu government, which at the moment is a coalition of something like 52% of the voters.
The guy who fixes my car is an Italian Jew who was raised in Israel. I don't discuss politics with him, because there would be no reason to do so. He once owned a Mercedes wagon like mine and says he drove it for 900,000 miles. Mine has only 230,000.
With or without occupation troops, Gaza is an open air prison.No one can leave by land, sea or air without Israeli or Egyptian permission. Prisoners resent being imprisoned, and those who were born in prison and have never committed any crime tend to resent it even more. The status of Gaza has not changed since 1947. Gazans were mistreated by the Egyptians and treated even worse by the Israelis.
Gazans did not start any of the wars with Israel. Israel has fought at one time or another Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrians, Jordanians and Iraqis, but not Gazans, who have never been armed as Gazans, though perhaps some might have fought for Egypt.