DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Amianthus on May 29, 2007, 07:36:02 AM
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"We view this as a hate crime."
Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 12:00 AM
By The Associated Press
ORCAS ISLAND, San Juan County — Vandals burned dozens of small American flags that decorated veterans' graves for Memorial Day and replaced many of them with hand-drawn swastikas, authorities said Monday.
Charred flag tatters were found still attached to 33 small flag standards at Woodlawn Cemetery, while 46 of the standards were found empty Sunday, authorities said.
Sheets of paper bearing swastikas drawn with what appeared to be red and black felt-tipped pens had been taped to 14 of the vandalized flag standards, Sheriff Bill Cumming said.
Members of the American Legion on this island in the San Juan Islands replaced the burned flags with new ones Sunday afternoon.
The vandals repeated their actions on Memorial Day after a guard left at dawn, replacing 33 of the small flags with more hand-drawn swastikas, the sheriff's office said.
Investigators believe there's more than one culprit, based on the number of flags vandalized, but they have no leads on any possible suspects, Cumming said by telephone.
The sheriff said deputies were trying to lift fingerprints off what little physical evidence they were able to recover and were asking people on this bucolic island to contact the sheriff's office.
"We don't view this as free speech," Cumming said. "We view this as a hate crime."
Article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003725568_orcas29m.html)
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Can you say "provocateur?" First place I'd look for culprits is inside the local FBI office. They pulled all kinds of shit like this in the Sixties and they're just as dumb now as they were then.
Second place I'd look is inside the right-wing extremist parties, starting with the Nazis and ending with the Republicans.
Third place I'd look would be among Islamic organizations that are fed up with the crimes and atrocities committed by the U.S. military on innocent Muslims.
And last place on earth that I'd look would be inside the anti-war movement.
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And last place on earth that I'd look would be inside the anti-war movement.
Yeah, because that group has never called the military "murdering, raping thugs" or compared them repeatedly to Nazis.
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<<Yeah, because that group has never called the military "murdering, raping thugs" or compared them repeatedly to Nazis.>>
I wouldn't take back a word of it. That's exactly what they are. Once you'll understand that, you'll understand what they're capable of, and you'll understand what their supporters are capable of. They'll commit any crime - - torture, rape and murder included. So grave vandalization to them is a small thing, not a big thing. And if it works to discredit the anti-war movement, so much the better.
The anti-war movement is against crime and criminal acts. We're against torture, against murder and against rape. So only in your lunatic "reasoning" do the very people who stand against violent criminal acts of aggression suddenly become capable of vandalizing graves. Wouldn't it make more sense to look for the criminals amongst the criminals and their supporters? Particularly when they have shown a pattern of this kind of behaviour in the past? (No, I guess not - - in the lunatic world of the far right, those who denounce crimes thereby become the criminals and past performance is no indication of anything.)
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Wouldn't it make more sense to look for the criminals amongst the criminals and their supporters? Particularly when they have shown a pattern of this kind of behaviour in the past? (No, I guess not - - in the lunatic world of the far right, those who denounce crimes thereby become the criminals and past performance is no indication of anything.)
Well, the Democratic Party has shown a pattern of voter fraud going back at least a century in this country, yet you do not look at that party at all when looking for voter fraud.
Do you live in the "lunatic world of the far right"?
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<<Well, the Democratic Party has shown a pattern of voter fraud going back at least a century in this country, yet you do not look at that party at all when looking for voter fraud.>>
No, I think it should be looked at. It just seems to me that the Republicans are much more active now in suppressing the black vote than the Democrats are in voter fraud. But they're both crimes. I wasn't as aware as I should have been about the Democrats' fraudulent activities, but this forum educated me on that pretty quickly. Or relatively quickly. That's what I like about the process. We're all here to learn. Or at least some of us are.
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I wasn't as aware as I should have been about the Democrats' fraudulent activities, but this forum educated me on that pretty quickly. Or relatively quickly.
Yeah, after you dismissed the first hundred or so times they were brought up as nothing more a disinformation campaign. Even claimed the physical evidence was planted, IIRC.
Besides, I would have thought it was common knowledge. The Democrats have committed voter fraud so many times that it's become tradition in Democratic strongholds like Baltimore and Chicago.
Even Poe died involved in voter fraud...
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I'm stunned that Tee didn't include in his list of high priority suspects, the Christian Coalition, or some faction of the religious right. And of course, where was Bush & Cheney when this all went down. The fact that they cannot be placed at the scene, should be proof positive that Rove was behind it. And of course the fact that it's not being brought up is an obvious cover-up/"looking the other way" by congress. ;)
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<<I'm stunned that Tee didn't include in his list of high priority suspects, the Christian Coalition, or some faction of the religious right. >>
I would have thought that "right wing extremist parties starting with the Nazis and ending with the Republicans" would have included them, but I'm happy to give them special notice if sirs thinks they're deserving of it. After all, from murdering abortion doctors and blowing up clinics and then sheltering the bombers and killers, grave vandalization is such a small thing for them, they probaby wouldn't give it a second thought.
<<And of course, where was Bush & Cheney when this all went down. The fact that they cannot be placed at the scene, should be proof positive that Rove was behind it. And of course the fact that it's not being brought up is an obvious cover-up/"looking the other way" by congress. >>
Too cowardly to expose themselves, their pattern is pay some schmuck to do the dirty work. Sort of like the suicide bombing campaign, the leaders don't want any part of the big bang, that's strictly reserved for the peons.
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<<I'm stunned that Tee didn't include in his list of high priority suspects, the Christian Coalition, or some faction of the religious right. >>
I would have thought that "right wing extremist parties starting with the Nazis and ending with the Republicans" would have included them, but I'm happy to give them special notice if sirs thinks they're deserving of it.
Actually, I was speaking as Tee. Then again, I think you knew that. I mean, you hit every conceivable organization that leans to the right, while giving a complete pass to the most obvious probability, those that hate the military, and call them and the administration nazis, because hey, it's your side. Can't be believing that now. Doesn't fit the template ;)
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Actually, being as how I live somewhat near the San Juans, I would hazard a guess that your culprits are probably a bunch of bored kids. The islands are a wealthy and somewhat eclectic community, the FBI, white supremacists, and the anti-war movement, while all could have possibly committed this act, seems somewhat unlikely. The simplest answer is usually the right one.
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I'm going with fatman and revising my list of likeliest candidates - - it's the same as my old list but with bored white teenagers at the top. Gotta trust the locals - - they know what's going down in their own hood.
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There has been a problem for several months now with some people knocking over gravestones in the cemetary in Friday Harbor. That's what brought bored kids to mind (and yes, I think like 95% of San Juan County is white).
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Actually, being as how I live somewhat near the San Juans, I would hazard a guess that your culprits are probably a bunch of bored kids.
Definate possibility. Obviously they must lean right in their bored stances though ;)
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<<Obviously they must lean right in their bored stances though>>
Yeah, good thinking there, sirs. I would definitely consider a swastika as evidence of "leaning right" and even of "Nazi-like" tendencies. Did you know that Adolf Hitler wore a swastika? And that he was a Nazi?
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I would definitely consider a swastika as evidence of "leaning right" and even of "Nazi-like" tendencies. Did you know that Adolf Hitler wore a swastika? And that he was a Nazi?
If it were kids, shock value is the key, not politics. You, Mikey, of all people should understand that.
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<<If it were kids, shock value is the key, not politics. You, Mikey, of all people should understand that. >>
Because I'm a big kid at heart.
I understand you can be a Nazi for principle AND for shock value. Shock value you can get with a Che Guevara or Fuck Fascism!
T-shirt or a Marxist-Leninist Workers' Party bumper sticker. Nazi paraphernalia have no monopoly on shock vaue.
I'm not prepared to write off the political symbolsm in the swastika automatically. Even kids know what it stands for. Most kids. Even rich white kids.
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I would think the shock value would escalate if an affluent white enclave had a sizable Jewish demographic. Wouldn't you?
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<<Obviously they must lean right in their bored stances though>>
Yeah, good thinking there, sirs. I would definitely consider a swastika as evidence of "leaning right" and even of "Nazi-like" tendencies. Did you know that Adolf Hitler wore a swastika? And that he was a Nazi?
LOL....and yet, it's certain rabid faction of the left, who hates the U.S. military, and thinks of them as the 3rd Reich. Let's see, desecrating military graves, defacing them with swastikas. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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<<I would think the shock value would escalate if an affluent white enclave had a sizable Jewish demographic. Wouldn't you?>>
I gotta admit, it would go ballistic. Why don't we ask fatman what percentage of Jews you'd find in the island's general population?
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<<LOL....and yet, it's certain rabid faction of the left, who hates the U.S. military, and thinks of them as the 3rd Reich. Let's see, desecrating military graves, defacing them with swastikas. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm>>
Well, in that case, since we're only talking about the fringe of a mainstream movement, there'd have to have been a whole lot of anti-war agitation in the area before the fringes get excited to the point of vandalizing graves. Why not ask fatman how much rabid anti-war activity was fermenting in the little island community before the incident in question?
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<<LOL....and yet, it's certain rabid faction of the left, who hates the U.S. military, and thinks of them as the 3rd Reich. Let's see, desecrating military graves, defacing them with swastikas. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm>>
Well, in that case, since we're only talking about the fringe of a mainstream movement, there'd have to have been a whole lot of anti-war agitation in the area before the fringes get excited to the point of vandalizing graves. Why not ask fatman how much rabid anti-war activity was fermenting in the little island community before the incident in question?
We could, but that wasn't really the point I was making. On the hierarchy of those potentially responsible, as it relates to what was vandalized & how, following bored kids would be anything pretty much not leaning right, if we're to stick to current logic and the rhetoric of said fringes. It's in dealing with your fantasy of trying to name every body of folks who are either associated with the Government or the RW, & conveniently ignoring the much more plausible scenario of folks following bored kids
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I like pinning shit like that on the FBI. It's something that they're perfectly capable of doing, even if it should turn out that they're not implicated in this particular offence, it's something they've done in the past (not vandalizing graves, necessarily, but other outrageous, provocative acts designed to turn the general public against the peace movement) and folks need to be reminded, and they can't be reminded too often, what duplicitous scum they can be. (In the Sixties, they tried to blackmail Martin Luther King into committing suicide.)
It's also good to remind folks not to rush to judgment when they're told to blame the Left for any particular outrageous act. Things aren't always what they appear to be on the surface, agents provocateurs abound, and basically you should always keep in mind that it's the Left who are the good guys, they're the only ones who are acting out and speaking out against war, against torture, against indiscriminate killing and raping of civilians, they're the ones who want a better world for everyone.
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I like pinning shit like that on the FBI. It's something that they're perfectly capable of doing, even if it should turn out that they're not implicated in this particular offence, it's something they've done in the past (not vandalizing graves, necessarily, but other outrageous, provocative acts designed to turn the general public against the peace movement) and folks need to be reminded, and they can't be reminded too often, what duplicitous scum they can be. (In the Sixties, they tried to blackmail Martin Luther King into committing suicide.)
It's also good to remind folks not to rush to judgment when they're told to blame the Left for any particular outrageous act. Things aren't always what they appear to be on the surface, agents provocateurs abound, and basically you should always keep in mind that it's the Left who are the good guys, they're the only ones who are acting out and speaking out against war, against torture, against indiscriminate killing and raping of civilians, they're the ones who want a better world for everyone.
LOL
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There was something funny in that last post of mine?
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Yeah
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Care to let everyone else in on the joke?
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they're the ones who want a better world for everyone.
Admit it, this is a great punchline.
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Answers to previous questions:
Religions of San Juan county:
http://www.thearda.com/mapsReports/reports/counties/53055_2000.asp (http://www.thearda.com/mapsReports/reports/counties/53055_2000.asp)
Note: I am fairly sure there are Jews that live in the county. A lot of the people there are retired executives from Boeing, Weyerhauser, Microsoft, etc.
As to how many are anti-war, I would say that it probably correlates with the national or state average. There are bound to be some rich conservatives, but we all know that rich liberals are not unheard of or particularly rare.
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Hey, thanks fatman. 22 congregations representing roughly 20% of the population and not a single Jewish one. Bahais and Buddhists but no Jews, who are a bigger demographic in the general population than either Bahai or Buddhists (I think! Correct me if I'm wrong.)
I'd say that means a lower than national average percentage of Jews, not a higher one. No visible (congregational) presence at all.
I think that kinda blows BT's "swastikas for shock only" theory out of the water. The group that woulda furnished the biggest shock reward just ain't there.
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MT is it your contention that ignorant people would not use a swasticka?
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<<MT is it your contention that ignorant people would not use a swasticka?>>
I don't broadbrush ignorant people, plane. Some a them would use a swastika, some wouldn't. Some know what it is, some don't. Some like it, some don't. I don't see ignorance as a moral state of either goodness or badness, plane. It's more of a misfortune.
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Shock value is shock value. And there is nothing preventing Jews who worship in Bellingham from having vacation homes on Orcas Island. And there are more than a few synagogues in Bellingham.
and this isn't the first time something like this happened there:
More grafitti vandals sentenced
posted 04/20/05
Two 17-year-old boys were sentenced to 30 days in detention, 150 hours of community service and a year of community supervision after they pleaded guilty in San Juan County Superior Court April 18, 2005. Judge Stewart Andrew handed out the sentences for first-degree malicious mischief and second-degree malicious mischief. They spray painted numerous businesses around Friday Harbor in February. (See story below for more details).
One of the juveniles will serve his sentence in Oregon where his mother lives. He cannot return to San Juan Island without written permission.
A restitution hearing is set for 10:30 a.m. May 5, 2005.
Maximum sentence handed out for graffiti
posted 04/05/05
"Words cannot express the level of disgust and revulsion this court has to any person who put graffiti of this nature on any property," said Judge Alan Hancock in San Juan County Superior Court yesterday. He was sentencing the first of three 17-year-old boys believed to be involved in spray painting racist and obscene graffiti on numerous buildings in Friday Harbor in early February.
One of the suspects pleaded guilty Monday, April 4, 2005. The boy told the judge: What I did was thoughtless and I am very sorry to any one I did hurt. It wasn't meant to hurt anyone - Native Americans, African Americans or Jewish people - in any way." He said he did not paint any of the racist graffiti. He was intoxicated when he participated in the crime and now realizes he has a problem with addiction. He plans to enter an inpatient rehabilitation facility.
Judge Hancock said, the graffiti "brings to mind horrible events of persecution in the history of this country. I think it would strike fear in hearts of these persons. A strong statement needs to be made."
Before pronouncing the sentence, Hancock listened to four community members express their reaction to the malicious mischief.
Barbara Marrett, the driving force behind the Portals of Welcome Project, broke into tears as she recalled seeing graffiti on the Salish House Posts. "Art communicates on a non-verbal level. The violation hits on a gut level. The psychological scar to the community remains." The house posts are installed on Port of Friday Harbor property. "What was done to them was a violation on many levels," she said. "It was a violation to the work, to the artist Susan Pointe, to women and to Native Americans."
Mitzi Johnson, a member of the Portals committee and a Soroptimist, agreed with Marrett's comments. She said, "i do accept that he has stepped forward to accept responsibility. I appreciate that. I hope next time they administer paint, they do so by helping an elderly person - painting their home or fence. Do something positive with their energy."
Friday Harbor Middle School Principal Court Bell found out about the graffiti, which covered walls, windows, doors and rocks at the rear of the middle school and high school, at 6 a.m. when a teacher called him. "When I saw it I was dumbfounded," he said. "The scope was unbelievable." He described the obscenities and racial slurs painted on the buildings. He told Judge Hancock he had to take 22 photos to document all of the graffiti. Maintenance staff worked to cover the graffiti as quickly as possible.
Aware action spoke louder than words, the school staff gathered the students together for an assembly. The photos of the graffiti were shown. "Two hundred students watched in united and stunned silence," he said. "The students felt their school had been violated and created a banner."
He encouraged the judge to deal harshly with the vandals. "Now this community and court can send a clear message that we will not tolerate racial violence. This was violence," he said. "We cannot measure the psychological damage."
Friday Harbor Port Commissioner Brian Calvert was the last speaker. The house posts and the aquarium damaged by graffiti were both on port property. "These acts were not just simple graffiti," he said. "They were targeted at the heart of the community." Calvert believes the way a community reacts to graffiti defines the community. "If it doesn't prosecute, the community falls apart," he said. "If it reacts immediately and strongly, the community thrives. We have an opportunity to define the community."
Defense Attorney Lawrence Delay noted his client had cooperated with authorities, made a full confession and was very sorry. He also stressed his client painted his signature "DZ." and not the inflammatory remarks. "His intent was not to focus disparagement at any ethnic groups," Delay said. "It was thoughtless. I want the court to set aside the racial graffiti and the swastikas."
Judge Hancock said, "We must take action to see to it that we do what we can so these things do not happen again. I am pleased to hear you confessed and in a detailed way. That is some mitigation to what occurred here. While you may not have engaged in vandalism pointed to minorities, you must still be held fully accountable."
The maximum punishment for malicious mischief first-degree by a juvenile is confinement until they reach the age of 21 or the punishment an adult can get 10 years imprisonment and/or a $20,000 fine.
Because the defendant had no prior criminal history, the maximum Judge Hancock could impose was 30 days in detention, 150 hours of community service and one year of community supervision. He also ordered restitution be paid. A hearing is scheduled for early May to determine the amount of restitution.
The two other defendants, also 17-years-old, pleaded not guilty to the malicious mischief charges. One was in custody because of an incident after midnight Friday, April 1, 2005. He is being charged with fourth-degree assault, minor in possession of alcohol, and disorderly conduct for those activities.
Judge Hancock ordered a $250 bond for each of the two incidents. He said, "I find he committed the offense while the other case was pending and that he is a threat to community safety." The bonds are not just appearance bonds but are also performance bonds. This means if he did make bail, it would be forfeited if he violated any of the conditions of his release. The defendant did not make bail and remains in custody. A May 10, 2005 trial date was set.
The final suspect posted a $500 performance bond and was released into his mother's custody. He also had additional charges pending as a result of the April 1 activities. She lives in Oregon and had driven up to be with him at court. He had been staying on San Juan Island with his brother. A June 2, 2005 trial date was set.
Three juveniles to be charged in graffiti case
posted 03/23/05
Three San Juan Island teenagers will be arraigned April 4, 2005 in San Juan County Superior Court as a result of the investigation into the racist graffiti sprayed in Friday Harbor in February.
Town offers $500 reward
posted 02/04/05
The town of Friday Harbor is offering a $500 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the vandals who sprayed graffiti in Friday Harbor this week. The council decided to offer the reward after Town Councilmember Howie Rosenfeld said the graffiti on the wall in the alley next to the Palace theater was done "in broad daylight." He noticed it on his way to the evening council meeting, he hadn't seen it earlier in the day. On Friday, another town resident informed San Juan Islander that Rosenfeld was mistaken. The resident said the graffiti was apparently part of the Tuesday night spree.
Anyone with information about the vandals can call the tip line at 378.HELP. People can also call the sheriff's office at 378.4151.
Port offers reward for info about vandalism; one suspect in custody
posted 02/03/05
Vandals spray-painted racial epiphets and obscenities on vehicles and buildings in Friday Harbor on Monday and Tuesday night. Friday Harbor Middle School and the Native American House Posts at the Port were two of the targets. The Port of Friday Harbor is offering a $500 reward to anyone providing information that leads to the identification, arrest and conviction of those responsible for the damage done to the port property with the spray paint. The reward fund will be administered by the Sheriff's Office. Anyone having information can call the tip line at 378-HELP, or the sheriff's office at 378.4151 or Port Director Steve Simpson at 378-2688. Information given to the sheriff will be kept confidential.
One juvenile was being held Wednesday night on suspicion of second-degree malicious mischief, minor in possession and possession of a controlled substance.
Friday Harbor Middle School
reacts to vandalism, racial and ethnic hatred
By Court Bell, Principal
posted 02/03/05
Friday Harbor Middle School staff and students arrived at FHMS on Wednesday morning to find our building smeared with racial graffiti. Swastikas, anti-black and anti-Jewish slogans and words were painted all over the school siding and windows, on the sidewalk behind the school, and on the concrete walls. Because it was a 'late start' day and teachers work from 7:45 a.m. but classes begin at 9:45 a.m., much of the most blatant graffiti was already painted over by the time students arrived.
The school population was appalled and angered about who would do this. In a first period all-school assembly, numerous staff members told of their feelings as they saw the destruction. We shared pictures of the graffiti with students and put the use of these terms and symbols in historical context so that all students could understand the anger felt by the staff.
Following the assembly, the ASB leaders - Brooke Jangard, Callie Bartlett, Charlotte Guard and Alex MacDonald, put together the attached statement to express their feelings. This statement was signed by 213 students and staff of Friday Harbor Middle School. A banner will hang over the front door on Thursday, February 3rd expressing the feelings of the FHMS community. We call on the entire San Juan Island Community to share our feelings.
Statement from Friday Harbor Middle School Students
posted 02/03/05
We the students and staff of FHMS stand united in our response to the vandalism to our school.
We do not accept:
* Racism
* Injustice
* Ignorance
* Vandalism
We believe:
# This doesn't represent our school
# None of our students support these actions
# These actions are wrong for our community
We believe if we stand together we can fight against discrimination of all kinds.
This statement was circulated in third period classes after our assembly and signed by 213 students and staff at Friday Harbor Middle School.
http://www.sanjuanislander.com/school_districts/san_juan/graffiti.shtml
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Sounds to me like apart from the one kid who was only tagging his intials, the others WERE political, the one guy was motivated enog\ugh to spread the word even while on probation or out on bail (I forget which) and the messages were pretty consistent with a right-wing racist viewpoint. If they had wanted to make the point that the soldiers were Nazis, why insult Indians as well? Why deface Indian House Posts?
This is pretty sick stuff. These kids aren't going to grow out of anything. They will grow from teenage Nazis into grown-up Nazis. It's just too bad they can't be executed now and save everybody a lot of trouble later.
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<<MT is it your contention that ignorant people would not use a swasticka?>>
I don't broadbrush ignorant people, plane. Some a them would use a swastika, some wouldn't. Some know what it is, some don't. Some like it, some don't. I don't see ignorance as a moral state of either goodness or badness, plane. It's more of a misfortune.
I can agree with all of that .
But my point is that the use of a swasticka does not prove anything about he sophistication or connections of the painter.
The thing is very famous , hardly anyone is so ignorant that they do't know it upsets some people , even those who are quite ignorant otherwise.
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I like pinning shit like that on the FBI. It's something that they're perfectly capable of doing, even if it should turn out that they're not implicated in this particular offence, it's something they've done in the past (not vandalizing graves,...)
So, A, no evidence of them doing this (vandalizing graves), and B no motive outisde of your say so that they've done outrageous things in the past. Yea, let's not "rush to judgement" there. ::)
It's also good to remind folks not to rush to judgment when they're told to blame the Left for any particular outrageous act.
Especially, when objectively, they're the likeliest perpetrators, given the rhetoric & actions involved. Hey, everyone, look over there !!!
Things aren't always what they appear to be on the surface
Rarely are they. Yet there's a fine line between the surface and lower levels remark of uncertainty, and the CIA shot JFK from the grassy knoll kind-of proclaimations (or in this case, attempting to broadbrush anything Government or RW as the perps)
and basically you should always keep in mind that it's the Left who are the good guys, they're the only ones who are acting out and speaking out against war, against torture, against indiscriminate killing and raping of civilians, they're the ones who want a better world for everyone.
Yep, as Bt referenced earlier, that was kind of humerous :D
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The thing is very famous , hardly anyone is so ignorant that they do't know it upsets some people , even those who are quite ignorant otherwise.
actually it`s a very confusing symbol to some asians.
chinese use it(with good reason)as a image of a falling star.
to see it as a symbol for nazi is quite abit annoying to me
it really is a cool looking symbol that got corrupted this way
india and china should sue ,but theirs nobody to sue.
really a shame.
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The thing is very famous , hardly anyone is so ignorant that they do't know it upsets some people , even those who are quite ignorant otherwise.
actually it`s a very confusing symbol to some asians.
chinese use it(with good reason)as a image of a falling star.
to see it as a symbol for nazi is quite abit annoying to me
it really is a cool looking symbol that got corrupted this way
india and china should sue ,but theirs nobody to sue.
really a shame.
I don't suspect that a Chineese , American Indian or Hindu painted this on a strangers gravestone as a sign of good will , this seems like the unfreindly sort of swasticka.
I have seen this symbol used in an unthreatening way , as a large decoration on a Korean Buddist temple and as a repeating pattern on the face of Herods temple.
(http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/IMAGES/herodian-swastika.jpg)http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/militant.htm
While searching the above picture up I found a book of antique puzzles you might like Kimba. Includeing this
(http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16713/16713-h/images/disectiond.png)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16713/16713-h/16713-h.htm
Figs. 8 and 9 will show how to do it, if we further require the four pieces to be all of the same size and shape. This Fig. 9 is remarkable because, according to Dr. Le Plongeon and others, as expounded in a work by Professor Wilson of the Smithsonian Institute, here we have the great Swastika, or sign, of "good luck to you "—the most ancient symbol of the human race of which there is any record. Professor Wilson's work gives some four hundred illustrations of this curious sign as found in the Aztec mounds of Mexico, the pyramids of Egypt, the ruins of Troy, and the ancient lore of India and China. One might almost say there is a curious affinity between the Greek cross and Swastika! If, however, we require that the four pieces shall be produced by only two clips of the scissors (assuming the puzzle is in paper form), then we must cut as in Fig. 10 to form Fig. 11, the first clip of the scissors being from a to b. Of course folding the paper, or holding the pieces together after the first cut, would not in this case be allowed. But there is an infinite number of different ways of making the cuts to solve the puzzle in four pieces. To this point I propose to return.
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thanks I`ve been meaning to test out the ebook function my new mp4 player
not a easy machine to use
and the instructions are in english chinese(english in chinese grammer structure)
not easy to read.
I think I need to convert it to txt format later on.
notepad is not easy to use