DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Cynthia on July 15, 2008, 10:33:34 PM

Title: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Cynthia on July 15, 2008, 10:33:34 PM
A Cross to bear (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/07/15/colombia.red.cross/index.html)
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 15, 2008, 10:52:24 PM
The Red Cross had nothing to do with the ruse.

And turnabout seems to be fair play:

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Both of Colombia's two main guerrilla armies, the FARC and the smaller National Liberation Army, have been known to misuse the Red Cross symbol, sometimes transporting fighters in ambulances.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Cynthia on July 15, 2008, 10:59:04 PM
The Red Cross had nothing to do with the ruse.

And turnabout seems to be fair play:

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Both of Colombia's two main guerrilla armies, the FARC and the smaller National Liberation Army, have been known to misuse the Red Cross symbol, sometimes transporting fighters in ambulances.

I thought so, BT.
What's next?

What a pathetic shame.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 15, 2008, 11:25:19 PM
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What's next?

Dunno.

Obama runs to the middle?
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Cynthia on July 15, 2008, 11:45:00 PM
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What's next?

Dunno.

Obama runs to the middle?


What does this issue have to do with Obama running to the middle, BT?
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 16, 2008, 12:00:10 AM
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What does this issue have to do with Obama running to the middle, BT?

Isn't the main issue deception?

Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Cynthia on July 16, 2008, 12:03:39 AM
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What does this issue have to do with Obama running to the middle, BT?

Isn't the main issue deception?



Whoa...you speak about deception.
What politician is not without his/her  deception....based on the nature of politics. Win at all cost.

Obama is running a campaign worthy of honor and hope and truth for the people of this nation.

I see nothing deceptive about him.

If you wish to TALK DECEPTION....let's review Bush's plea to deceive the American people when he declared "Mission Accomplished"...and so much more. Ironically...Bush thought it was a WIN, when he declared such an accomplishment.

Are all politicians so stupid?
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 16, 2008, 12:12:41 AM
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What politician is not without his/her  deception....based on the nature of politics. Win at all cost.

And how is that different from warfare or revolution? We all know the story of the trojan horse.

Why excuse one and not the other?


 
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Cynthia on July 16, 2008, 12:15:18 AM
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What politician is not without his/her  deception....based on the nature of politics. Win at all cost.

And how is that different from warfare or revolution? We all know the story of the trojan horse.

Why excuse one and not the other?


 

BT...I suppose you don't "get" my original post. I agree with you. I think this is a Trojan horse issue.
Those people needed to be freed at any and all cost.....no matter the wax horse.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 16, 2008, 12:33:18 AM
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BT...I suppose you don't "get" my original post. I agree with you. I think this is a Trojan horse issue.
Those people needed to be freed at any and all cost.....no matter the wax horse.

There was nothing to get from your original post. You offered the article without comment.

However the article you offered seems to think that the Colombian Govt was amiss is using the same subterfuge that the rebels used.

What is equally curious is why rebel forces are so trusting of NGO's that they wouldn't suspect a trap. Perhaps they have received non humanitarian aid in the past from these groups. Who knows.

Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Cynthia on July 16, 2008, 12:56:13 AM
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BT...I suppose you don't "get" my original post. I agree with you. I think this is a Trojan horse issue.
Those people needed to be freed at any and all cost.....no matter the wax horse.

There was nothing to get from your original post. You offered the article without comment.

However the article you offered seems to think that the Colombian Govt was amiss is using the same subterfuge that the rebels used.

What is equally curious is why rebel forces are so trusting of NGO's that they wouldn't suspect a trap. Perhaps they have received non humanitarian aid in the past from these groups. Who knows.



Well, keep on bein' curious, BT. That's why I posted the link.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 16, 2008, 02:06:26 AM
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Well, keep on bein' curious, BT.

You don't wonder about that?
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Cynthia on July 16, 2008, 02:08:08 AM
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Well, keep on bein' curious, BT.

You don't wonder about that?


Of course I do.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 16, 2008, 02:12:31 AM
so what are your thoughts?

Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Cynthia on July 16, 2008, 02:14:30 AM
so what are your thoughts?



About the original issue? I'll get back to you manana about that, dear.

I have thoughts about the original post.

Nite.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on July 16, 2008, 11:50:10 AM
In the future, the Red Cross will not be as trusted as an impartial organization.

It remains to be seen whether this lack of trust in the future is a good tradeoff for the freeing of the hostages.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 16, 2008, 01:02:32 PM
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In the future, the Red Cross will not be as trusted as an impartial organization.
]

The Red Cross had nothing to do with the deception. The govt and the revels usurped their logo.

So to the knowledgeable, why should their credibility suffer?

Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on July 16, 2008, 03:07:20 PM
So to the knowledgeable, why should their credibility suffer?

Assume you are a guerrilla leader in some other country. Someone comes to you, claiming that they are supported by the Red Cross, and offering to take some annoying hostages off your hands.

Knowing what happened in Colombia, are you MORE or LESS likely to turn them over?

Suppose some fool has been going around loading vending machines with Coca-Colas that have projectile-strength laxative. The Coca Cola Company has nothing to do with this. But them you see a victim of this laxative Coke on TV.

Next time you are thirsty, are you gonna opt for a Coke? Or would you just have a Pepsi to be on the safe side?

Exactly.

It's not about the Red Cross not knowing: it's about the fact that they were used for deceptive purposes.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 16, 2008, 05:48:58 PM
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It's not about the Red Cross not knowing: it's about the fact that they were used for deceptive purposes.

And if you were a govt official would you allow Red Cross ambulances free transit knowing rebels had commandeered these same ambulances for troop transport.

The Red Cross had nothing to do with that either.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on July 16, 2008, 07:09:04 PM
You miss the point. It is not about the Red Cross making a mistake.
It is about the possibility that the misuse of the Red Cross logo and how that could affect a mistrust of the Red Cross in the future.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 17, 2008, 12:35:04 AM
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You miss the point. It is not about the Red Cross making a mistake.
It is about the possibility that the misuse of the Red Cross logo and how that could affect a mistrust of the Red Cross in the future.

As i said the knowledgeable know what happened. There is no accounting for what the ill informed believe.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on July 17, 2008, 12:44:47 AM
You miss the point. It is not about the Red Cross making a mistake.
It is about the possibility that the misuse of the Red Cross logo and how that could affect a mistrust of the Red Cross in the future.

As i said the knowledgeable know what happened. There is no accounting for what the ill informed believe.
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Now every country will need to make sure that they only have knowledgeable terrorists and guerrillas. If the see a Red Cross logo, they must all assume that it is on the up and up.
Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: BT on July 17, 2008, 01:11:41 AM
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If the see a Red Cross logo, they must all assume that it is on the up and up.

Wouldn't the same go for govt troops?

Title: Re: The Red Cross at a cross roads?
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on July 17, 2008, 09:35:10 AM
If the see a Red Cross logo, they must all assume that it is on the up and up.

Wouldn't the same go for govt troops?

=================================
Of course.

Both sides are now at a disadvantage, as is the Red Cross itself, because the Red Cross logo has been misused. It does not matter by whom.