DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on February 19, 2010, 03:36:41 PM
-
Michael Tee...I mean no disrespect...but it's amazing sometimes how much you echo the words of
Ayman al Zawahiri & Bin laden ...now I see your sentiments in the IRS suicide plane crasher....
I sware on a stack of bibles when I read the diatribe of the IRS plane crash suspect...I thought...
wow this guy could be Michael Tee!
"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed"
"Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die for the mistakes isn't that a clever,
tidy solution"
the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars, as usual they
left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich
"the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies,
are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims
they cripple"
(http://"The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years
certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government"[/url)
Read the complete diatribe:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html)
-
The man had his bank accounts attached and he freaked out.
-
The man had his bank accounts attached and he freaked out.
BT look at this guy!
(http://www.lyngsat-logo.com/logo/tv/ww/wxin_fox59_indianapolis.jpg)
Ohio man says he bulldozed home to keep bank
from foreclosing and taking his property
By Associated Press
February 19, 2010
MOSCOW, Ohio (AP) An Ohio man says he bulldozed his home after a bank began foreclosure proceedings
and says he won't let the bank take his carpet business either.
Terry Hoskins of Moscow in southwest Ohio says he has struggled with the RiverHills Bank over his Clermont
County home for years and had problems with the Internal Revenue Service. He says the IRS placed liens
on his store and commercial property and the bank claimed his house as collateral.
(http://consumerist.com/2010/02/18/021810-005-bulldozing-home.jpg)
Hoskins says after spending "tons of money" on attorneys he just had enough and two weeks ago bulldozed
the home, 25 miles southeast of Cincinnati.
When asked if he would level the store, Hoskins said he would do "what it takes."
Messages were left for the bank and its attorney.
IRS spokeswoman Jodie Reynolds said individual taxpayer information is private and federal law prevents
her from commenting.
http://www.fox59.com/news/sns-ap-oh--foreclosure-bulldozer,0,7494447.story (http://www.fox59.com/news/sns-ap-oh--foreclosure-bulldozer,0,7494447.story)
-
There is a major WTF coming.
The Treasury Secretary is a tax dodger, bankers get bailed out for making silly loans, Congress tries to pass a Health Reform Bill they refuse to use. Federal Employees seem to be the only ones with safe jobs and banks want your mothers maiden name as well as all other info that would make stealing identification a piece of cake for any low level employee with access to the data, hell they might as well require a copy of your house and car keys, and people facing adversity are saying what's up with that?
-
What this crazy did was inexcusable and yet the IRS can indeed by heavy-handed and inflexible. I worked for them for seven years and you wouldn't believe what I saw and heard. Their raw power can be AWESOME and they are not afraid of using it.
-
There is a major WTF coming.
- The Treasury Secretary is a tax dodger,
- bankers get bailed out for making silly loans,
- Congress tries to pass a Health Reform Bill they refuse to use.
- Federal Employees seem to be the only ones with safe jobs
- and banks want your mothers maiden name as well as all other info that would make stealing identification a piece of cake for any low level employee with access to the data,
- hell they might as well require a copy of your house and car keys, and people facing adversity are saying what's up with that?
I'll ditto that >:(
-
Your empathy with the poor guy's plight just blows me away, CU4.
I wasn't in Austin, no, never had the pleasure, but I hear it's a great little city and leaning a lot more to the left than most of the rest of the state.
This guy seemed to have a handle on the problem, he just didn't know where or how to start on the solution. IMHO, there IS no solution so he might as well have just tried to game the system and find what enjoyment he could in this lifetime. Ah, well, to each his own. He's not the first victim of capitalism and he won't be the last, he just found a more spectacular way than most to escape from Capitalist Hell.
-
This guy seemed to have a handle on the problem, he just didn't know where or how to start on the solution. IMHO, there IS no solution so he might as well have just tried to game the system and find what enjoyment he could in this lifetime. Ah, well, to each his own. He's not the first victim of capitalism and he won't be the last, he just found a more spectacular way than most to escape from Capitalist Hell.
Perhaps you misread . He had no problem with capitalism, he was an entrepreneur since the 80's. His problem was with government and redistribution and confiscatory policies.
-
This guy seemed to have a handle on the problem, he just didn't know where or how to start on the solution.
I guess he shouldn't have tried to avoid paying taxes for a number of years. That seems to have been the root of his problems.
-
This guy was seriously disturbed, and as Ami said, he refused to pay the IRS.
You could say that he was more than half responsible for creating his own capitalist Hell.
-
This guy seemed to have a handle on the problem, he just didn't know where or how to start on the solution.
I guess he shouldn't have tried to avoid paying taxes for a number of years. That seems to have been the root of his problems.
It simply isn't that easy. The IRS decides when it punishes and how. You are being naive.
-
<<Perhaps you misread . He had no problem with capitalism, he was an entrepreneur since the 80's. >>
You might as well say the guy had no problem with gambling, he's been a casino player for the past 30 years. Entrepreneurs also have a problem with capitalism, most of them chasing the dragon for decades, hoping against all hope that they'll be one of the lucky few. That's how the system works - - instead of a rational appeal to all to work together for the common good, it's a game of roulette pitting each against all in the hopes that each will be in the spotlight of the winners' circle.
-
It simply isn't that easy. The IRS decides when it punishes and how. You are being naive.
Are you saying that had he paid his taxes on time that the IRS would have still gone after him?
-
<<Perhaps you misread . He had no problem with capitalism, he was an entrepreneur since the 80's. >>
You might as well say the guy had no problem with gambling, he's been a casino player for the past 30 years. Entrepreneurs also have a problem with capitalism, most of them chasing the dragon for decades, hoping against all hope that they'll be one of the lucky few. That's how the system works - - instead of a rational appeal to all to work together for the common good, it's a game of roulette pitting each against all in the hopes that each will be in the spotlight of the winners' circle.
Classic projection.
In socialist countries you also have taxes. His beef was with the amount and the collection methods, and those charged with collecting it. IE the government.
-
<<In socialist countries you also have taxes. His beef was with the amount and the collection methods, and those charged with collecting it. IE the government.>>
In socialist countries the taxes will be collected at source since the state owns the means of production and most of the workforce is employed by the state.
-
Is that the case in Sweden?
And in a Socialist Country would the man even have access to a private airplane?
-
<<Is that the case in Sweden?>>
Probably not. Sweden is not a socialist country.
<<And in a Socialist Country would the man even have access to a private airplane?>>
There are workers' sports clubs for every sport. Whether that includes flying, I honestly don't know, but I know for a fact there were workers' gliding clubs in East Germany. At the very least the guy could have crashed his glider into a gov't office building.
-
Sweden was were China is going. So what successful socialist countries are left?
Cuba? N. Korea?
Even Viet Nam is opening to foreign investment.
-
<<So what successful socialist countries are left?>>
Assume for the sake of argument that none are left. This is certainly a low point in the history of applied communism.
I don't think this would represent the triumph of capitalism on anything beyond a purely temporary basis. The ideal of socialism is still alive. This may turn out to be a very good time for Communists to retrench and reflect on what went wrong. The downfall of socialism has to be reviewed on a painstaking case-by-case basis, one socialist nation at a time.
A massive undertaking, but a necessary one if the socialist ideal is to be preserved.
-
<<So what successful socialist countries are left?>>
Assume for the sake of argument that none are left. This is certainly a low point in the history of applied communism.
I don't think this would represent the triumph of capitalism on anything beyond a purely temporary basis. The ideal of socialism is still alive. This may turn out to be a very good time for Communists to retrench and reflect on what went wrong. The downfall of socialism has to be reviewed on a painstaking case-by-case basis, one socialist nation at a time.
A massive undertaking, but a necessary one if the socialist ideal is to be preserved.
I think that the Socialist Ideal will be preserved amoung those who do not examine history too closely.
-
It simply isn't that easy. The IRS decides when it punishes and how. You are being naive.
Are you saying that had he paid his taxes on time that the IRS would have still gone after him?
Well, I saw it happen. I saw they go after a guy because they "felt" he could be guilty of underreporting.
-
<<I think that the Socialist Ideal will be preserved amoung those who do not examine history too closely.>>
And I say that Socialists will have to examine history closely and under a microscope if they want to rebuild socialism in this or the next century.
-
and, you do not have to file by April 15 of any year if they owe YOU money.
-
and, you do not have to file by April 15 of any year if they owe YOU money.
This guy didn't file for like 10 years.
-
and, you do not have to file by April 15 of any year if they owe YOU money.
You do not have to file by April 15 even if you owe them money. You just have to send in enough money to cover what you owe, then you can file the forms later.
-
This discusses the 1706 section that was mentioned in the suicide note.
The New York Times
April 27, 1998
How a Tax Law Helps Insure a Scarcity of Programmers
By DAVID CAY JOHNSTON
The Senate holds hearings this week on complaints of taxpayer abuse by the Internal Revenue Service, but the agenda does not include the role of Congress itself in creating taxpayer woes, particularly for tens of thousands of computer programmers.
But just ask Midge Johnson, a would-be programming entrepreneur, about a long-standing tax law that is pointed specifically at software professionals and prevents many of them from setting up freelance businesses. Lately, the I.R.S. has been aggressively enforcing that law -- even as computer programmers are in such short supply that the Clinton Administration is pouring millions of dollars into Federal initiatives to train more of them.
It appears to be public policy in conflict with itself and it is making work life difficult for a category of citizens crucial to the digital economy.
''Why does Congress say that I can't go out and pursue the American dream and give my kids and grandkids things I couldn't have?'' asked Mrs. Johnson, who did not find out about the law until two years ago, after quitting her job with the consulting firm of Booz Allen & Hamilton in hopes of starting her own software programming business. ''And why,'' she asked, ''is the I.R.S. so busy enforcing this law that keeps me from being an independent contractor?''
Mrs. Johnson, of Lanham, Md., knows that programmers are in such short supply that they can earn up to several hundred dollars an hour writing code for hire, and many in Congress want to let tens of thousands of foreign programmers migrate to the United States. She calculated that if she were in business for herself she could double her income.
Everywhere Mrs. Johnson went in the suburbs of the nation's capital, she said, she was offered work fixing and customizing software -- but only if she would close her business and become an employee.
''They were afraid to do business with my company,'' Mrs. Johnson said. Two months ago, her bank account empty and creditors at the door, Mrs. Johnson gave up and took a job as a programmer, paying $69,000.
Mrs. Johnson and thousands of other computer programmers who want to work for themselves instead of being employees have run afoul of a 1986 law in which Congress decreed that most individual programmers cannot be entrepreneurs.
The law generally excludes programmers from statutes giving employers some flexibility to use independent contractors. Critics say that the I.R.S. has recently stepped up its enforcement of the law in a way that effectively kills start-up programming businesses if their only employee is the founder.
The law, which was introduced by Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Democrat of New York, was estimated to raise $60 million over five years, a figure based on a belief by a staff member of the Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation that employees cheat less on their taxes than independent contractors do. That was enough money to pay for a tax break, approved with Mr. Moynihan's support, that was sought by I.B.M. for its overseas operations. Under the Gramm-Rudman deficit control act of the previous year, Congress was required to pay for any tax cuts with comparable revenue increases or spending cuts.
A year after the law regarding contractors was enacted, the Senator tried to repeal it, but his bill died. In 1994, Senator William V. Roth, Republican of Delaware, the sponsor of this week's hearings, wrote Mr. Moynihan saying the programmers should get relief. More than 60 other senators have written similar letters since 1994, but they have not voted to change the law.
Ginny Flynn, a spokeswoman for Mr. Roth, said that while the Senator believed that the law was unfair, he was not currently moving to change it because ''despite the fact the programmers are treated differently from other people, this opens a Pandora's box of other independent contractor issues.''
Programmers and their lawyers say that as a result of inaction by Congress, many corporations have revised their policies to explicitly forbid the hiring of programmers who are independent contractors.
In response, some people, like Mrs. Johnson, incorporated. They reasoned that if they were employees of their own corporations they would be treated by the I.R.S. the way that many doctors and others are and could expand their enterprises.
But internal I.R.S. documents show that in Alaska, California, Ohio, Minnesota, New York and New Jersey, I.R.S. auditors as recently as last year hunted for corporations created by computer programmers. They found scores of such companies and then disallowed them for tax purposes. The papers show that they were disallowed because they were less than a year old and had only one employee, the programmer who created the corporation.
Across the country, officials of high-technology temporary-help companies said the I.R.S. audit tactic had caused many corporations to refuse to hire programmers unless they become employees, like Mrs. Johnson, or were employees of such temporary-help agencies.
Mary E. Oppenheimer, an I.R.S. assistant chief counsel, said there was no national directive for auditors to hunt for incorporated programmers. However, she noted, Congress has directed the I.R.S. to look at the economic substance of tax matters, not just their legal form.
In an earlier interview, Tom Burger, the director of employment taxes for the I.R.S., said one of the agency's difficulties ''is that, and I need to pick my words carefully, Congress passes laws, often without asking us about them, and then tells us to enforce them.''
The immediate effect of these audits is to force individual programmers like Mrs. Johnson to abandon their dreams of getting rich off their high-technology skills. But the broader impact is that small businesses started by one entrepreneur do not have a chance to grow into mighty enterprises that can create jobs and generate more taxes. ''Who do you know who would hire someone who will bring with them trouble from the I.R.S.?'' asked Harvey J. Shulman, the Washington lawyer for the National Association of Computer Consultant Businesses, who made the audit documents available.
Mr. Shulman has challenged 52 such audits. ''I prevailed in 50 cases and partially in another, but at a cost to clients of $50,000 or more, and that is just ridiculous,'' he said.
The association's 400 members, who had more than $5 billion of revenues last year, are mostly high-technology temporary-help agencies that hire programmers as employees and send them to companies on short-term assignments. They want the same flexibility to use contractors and individuals who have incorporated as other businesses do.
Don McLaurin, president of the Computer Consulting Group in Columbia, S.C., which hires programmers as employees and farms them out to companies for short-term projects, said the law and its enforcement ''are having a devastating impact on the computer industry.''
He said his business and his clients would benefit if he could use some independent contractors and some incorporated programmers.
''This is Catch-22,'' he said. ''If you are not legitimate because you start out as a one-person corporation and you haven't been in business for a year, then how do you ever start your business? It is nonsensical.''
Ed Myers, president of a company in El Segundo, Calif., that provides programmers to corporations, said that when his company was audited he and Mr. Shulman were able to defend the status of all but 3 of 50 workers as independent contractors.
''The auditor then said I had to give him two more people and I said, 'what do you mean?' and he said he had to have five people he could reclassify as employees because that was what his boss demanded and that if I would give him two more names he would close the audit.
''My first reaction was 'hell no,' because they are not truly employees,'' Mr. Myers said. ''But my second reaction was that it makes no economic sense for me to fight this because it would cost another $50,000 or more, so I gave him two names.''
The two programmers, he said, no longer speak to him.
Mr. Shulman said the association ''is not asking for a special privilege in repealing this law; we are just asking that programmers and other technical-services workers be treated the same as every other worker in America instead of being singled out for discriminatory treatment.''
Donna Steele Flynn, a former member of the House Ways and Means Committee staff who is now a tax specialist with Ernst & Young, said, ''The only reason this hasn't gotten fixed is because the official Joint Tax Committee estimate in the past was that repeal of Section 1706 would cost a billion dollars in tax revenue over five years.
''There is a political will on both sides of the aisle, but in terms of importance and number of people, a billion dollars is a lot of money for a relatively small number of people.''
However, Ms. Flynn added, the official estimate seems wildly inflated. She noted that when legislation was considered last year that would allow employers broad discretion over whether to treat workers in any industry as employees or independent contractors, the tax revenue loss for the entire economy was estimated at the same $1 billion over five years.
The I.R.S. estimates that it collects 99.5 percent of taxes due from employees, but far less from those who work as independent contractors.
''Whether people cheat is a separate issue,'' Mr. Shulman said. He pointed to a Treasury Department study that found that programmers were more compliant taxpayers than other independent contractors.
''The I.R.S. wants people to be employees because it is easier to collect revenue, but the revenue they are collecting from employees is less than the revenue they would collect from independent contractors -- even if they cheat a little -- because they can make so much more,'' he said. ''Basically the I.R.S. is saying it would rather collect less revenue with less cheating than collect more revenue with more cheating. Does that make economic sense?''
Original Article (http://www.nytimes.com/1998/04/27/business/how-a-tax-law-helps-insure-a-scarcity-of-programmers.html?pagewanted=all)