DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on January 27, 2013, 11:41:15 PM
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http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/dry-up-the-supply-these-are-some-of-the-150-weapons-in-feinsteins-gun-ban/#axzz2JEoC6IO3 (http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/dry-up-the-supply-these-are-some-of-the-150-weapons-in-feinsteins-gun-ban/#axzz2JEoC6IO3)
Dry Up the Supply’: These Are Some of the 150 Weapons in Feinstein’s Gun Ban
AmmoLand Gun News
Washington DC - -(Ammoland.com)- When Adam Lanza committed his horrific crime at Sandy Hook Elementary, he misused a Bushmaster brand AR-15 to do it.
That gun would be banned by Dianne Feinstein’s newly unveiled “Assault Weapons Ban of 2013,” but it would hardly be the only weapon outlawed.
The ban covers “all AR types,” including but not limited to:
AR-10, AR-15, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE Series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, Doublestar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R-15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR-15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P 15 rifles
In addition to the AR, these are some of the other rifles banned as well:
AK, AK-47, AK-47S, AK-74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR-47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK-47, VEPR, WASR-10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK-47, and ARM, Norinco 56S, 56S2, and 86S, Poly technologies AK-47 and AKS
The list also includes, but is not limited to, the following pistols:
American Spirit AR-15 pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, Doublestar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR pistol, Olympic Arms AR-15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol, Calico Liberty pistols, DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol, Encom MP-9 and MP-45, Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol, Intratec AB-10, TEC 22 Scorpion, TEC 9, and TEC DC9
The ban would also include, but is not limited to, the following shotguns:
Franchi LAW 12 and SPAS 12, all IZMASH Saiga 12 types including IZMASH Saiga 12, IZMASH Saiga 12S, IZMASH Saiga 12S EXP-01, IZMASH Saiga 12K, IZMASH Saiga 12K-040 Taktika, Streetsweeper, and Striker 12
These guns represent only 40% of what Feinstein ultimately wants to ban. We’re supposed to believe that this extensive list of guns is all driven by the fact that a criminal misused an AR-15 on Dec. 14th?
The number of weapons listed here proves that the real goal is to end importation and sale of these weapons so that registration can be implemented and the exact location of every gun and every gun owner can be ascertained.
And as the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre pointed out on Tuesday night, once such registration begins, we’ll quickly learn there are only two possible reasons for it: 1) to tax all gun owners or 2) to seize all guns.
Read more at Ammoland.com: http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/dry-up-the-supply-these-are-some-of-the-150-weapons-in-feinsteins-gun-ban/#ixzz2JEp0OJK5 (http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/dry-up-the-supply-these-are-some-of-the-150-weapons-in-feinsteins-gun-ban/#ixzz2JEp0OJK5)
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Wayne LaPierre is a paranoid dork.
He should be ignored.
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Wayne LaPierre is a paranoid dork.
He should be ignored.
Maybe he is wrong , that kind of thing happens , even to me.
What is the real reason to register all guns and gun owners?
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What is the real reason to register all guns and gun owners?
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Public safety, of course. The Swiss register every gun and every piece of ammo in the country and have been doing so for a century or so. The murder rate in Switzerland is a fraction of what it is here,and the Swiss are doing what the 2nd Amendment states: serving as members of a well-organized militia. Swiss who own guns are required to undergo training about how to use their guns. I have not heard that the Swiss government has become oppressive of the rights of the Swiss people in the past 300 years.
Somehow registering guns and their owners has worked out just fine for the Swiss. It is likely that the Nazis and the Fascists made no attempts to conquer Switzerland precisely because of the Swiss militia and the elaborate plans that the Swiss had to repel attack.
Every Swiss man knows that misuse of his gun or his ammo will have serious consequences. I have not heard of a single incident of massacres like we have every year in the US occurring in Switzerland.
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Good list. Notice none of the weapons I recommend are on it and they are far superior to the AR15.
BSB
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With everyday that goes by I'm more appalled by how dumb the right is. Fortunately most of the rest of the country is equally appalled.
BSB
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Yea, that explains all the polls supporting the 2nd amendment, including armed guards at schools, not to mention the lack of votes even in the Democrat controlled senate has in passing these oppressive gun grabbing bills by Feinstein & Co ::)
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I got a news flash for you. Banning a particular style of weapon does not run contrary to the constitution. Your right to bear arms is not a right to bear any kind of arm. Limiting the weapons available for the public at large is completely constitutional. Therefor this 2nd amendment, and gun grabbing, horseshit about AR15 platform weapons is just that, horseshit.
BSB
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Correction, my mistake. The DSA SA58 is on her list. That's an FAL. She's a far left nut-job and a God damn liberal.
BSB
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O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
Stop these gun-grabbing commies.
BSB
P.S. Actually it shows only the SA58 pistol as being on her list. I don't care about that. Nobody in their right mind would carry one of those anyway.
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Your self proclaimed know-whats-best-for-the-rest-of-us-serf is duly noted. Thank God for the Constitution to protect us from such superior intellect. Your reference to guns banned is specific to military weapons, incl automatics. It had nothing to do with "looks", and all to do with function, which is another way to say this ban is all about emotion, since if it was about function it'd be a ban on ALL semiautomatic weapons, not just the ones that look mean
So, what's your problem? Not able to bring yourself to put some substance behind your rhetoric? What are you afraid of?
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Again, the Swiss are SMART about gun control, and have few incidents of massacres by unbalanced nut jobs.
Americans are STUPID about gun control and pretty much hold a record for this sort of thing.
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Isn't the U.S. Bill of Rights great?....you can say all kinds of 1st amendment idiotic things, and have a perfect right to stupid opinions about stupid gun control measures, in the face of the 2nd amendment 8)
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The reason for banning the AR15 type weapons has zero to do with looks. That's how little you know about guns. And right to limit the type of firearm the general population can own isn't limited to automatic weapons. That's how little you know about the constitution.
Ha, Sirs is a gun nut that knows nothing about guns or the constitution.
BSB
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It has EVERYTHING to do with looks. It looks mean, it looks nasty, it looks military, but functions just like any other magazine fed semiautomatic. Where's the outcry to ban the rest of them??
That's how emotionally blinded you are on guns and the Constitution
Sirs
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People like Gen McCrystal don't think it should be banned because of how it looks moron. It should be banned because of it's capabilities. And that's right Sirs, there is nothing in the constitution that says you can't ban the AR15s.
You're O for two. Sirs the gun-nut that's all nut and no gun.
BSB
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People like Gen McCrystal & yourself apparently don't have the gonads to apparently ban semiautomatics, and instead play like they care and just ban the ones that look nastier than others. A semiautomatic, is a semiautomatic, is a semiautomatic. It's capabilities are equal to pretty much every other magazine fed semiautomatic
O for two? LOL That's what emotion can do, it would appear. Turn rational thought into some twisted rationalization train
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Look Sirs, you're as out of it on this as you are on your claim that talking to someone in a car, with you, while driving, is the same as talking to someone on a phone while you're driving. You're as out of it on this as you are on global warming. You're just plane out of it Sirs. Out to lunch. Living in self-imposed intellectual exile. Talking to you is like talking to a Taliban cleric about Darwin. There is no hope for you whatsoever.
BSB
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LOL...oh the irony....especially the no hope part. Please let us know when you plan on putting some substance to the emotion by advocating the ban of all semiautomatics. Then you MIGHT have a credible leg to stand on, with your know-it-all proclamations
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So now that BsB & Sirs have finished this song and dance insult routine, can we please get back to some serious discussions, minus the demeaning slurs and insults
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That is pretty much all there is to it.
Sirs emits bogus "facts" and then claims that anyone who does not believe them is wrong.
Rinse and repeat.
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You'll have to point out what bogus facts those would be, and how they are "bogus". Your say so, just doesn't cut it, I'm afraid
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What is the real reason to register all guns and gun owners?
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Public safety, of course. The Swiss register every gun and every piece of ammo in the country and have been doing so for a century or so. The murder rate in Switzerland is a fraction of what it is here,and the Swiss are doing what the 2nd Amendment states: serving as members of a well-organized militia. Swiss who own guns are required to undergo training about how to use their guns. I have not heard that the Swiss government has become oppressive of the rights of the Swiss people in the past 300 years.
Somehow registering guns and their owners has worked out just fine for the Swiss. It is likely that the Nazis and the Fascists made no attempts to conquer Switzerland precisely because of the Swiss militia and the elaborate plans that the Swiss had to repel attack.
Every Swiss man knows that misuse of his gun or his ammo will have serious consequences. I have not heard of a single incident of massacres like we have every year in the US occurring in Switzerland.
Don't the Swiss also have fewer murders (per capata) with hammers? They have few hammer murders because hammers are registered?
Massive massicres by madmen are rare in every country , only the big countrys have more than a few in their history, Norway had none at all untill they had the biggest one of all.
I like this article for its charts , some of the conclusions he reaches at the end of the article I do not agree with , but for a liberal, he has a remarkably well thought out position and willingness to find compromise.
I provide excerpts necessacery to understand these charts , but the whole article at the link is worth reading.
http://www.neontommy.com/news/2012/07/doing-math-guns (http://www.neontommy.com/news/2012/07/doing-math-guns)
What makes a Nigerian gun more dangerous than a Swedish gun?
(http://www.neontommy.com/sites/default/files/users/user717/gc0.png)
(http://www.neontommy.com/sites/default/files/users/user717/gc5.png)
(http://www.neontommy.com/sites/default/files/users/user717/gc7.png)
(http://)
Killers in countries where civilians tend to be armed show a slight preference for guns but just as in the first scatter plot, gun ownership and murder rates show no relationship. Swiss and American murderers use guns simply because they’re around. South Korean and British murderers don’t have a pistol in the closet so they take a knife from the drawer. Either way, killers gonna kill.
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There is indeed a strong correlation between murder rates and socio-economic development, which is even more striking considering the measurement used. Murders per gun is a metric that isolates the impact of gun ownership on the murder rate: someone who believes many civilian guns almost always lead to many homicides per capita and few to few would expect the green bars to be relatively flat, and not necessarily aligned with the kind of factors measured in the Human Development Index, things like poverty and failing institutions. This is obviously not the case at all.
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WOW....great graphs, Plane. Nice facts 8)
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WOW....great graphs, Plane. Nice facts 8)
I should only have credit for searching for them with Google.
The Author of that article must have done some serious work producing them.
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Seriously
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Maybe he is wrong , that kind of thing happens , even to me.
What is the real reason to register all guns and gun owners?
You,... Wrong?
What a wierd thought.
The registration of guns is not to prevent massicres .
Imagine that all the guns used by the perpetrators of the Columbine , Fort Dix and Sandy Hook atrositys were better registered, in any way that you can imagine registering them .
There would be no effect. The guys that did this stuff didn't even plan a getaway, let alone plan a second occurance. What does knowing more about the origin of the wepon found on scene do about this?
The registration idea is seriously debunked in Canada, where the extreme and impractical and expensive registration of all guns was abandoned mid-program, it was in the execution that the people realised that it was irritateing much more than it was effective , expensive and dangerous much more than it was liable to save anyone injury.
If it failed spectacularly in Canada , how could it work in the US which has two orders of magnitude more guns involved?
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The legislation strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and state bans by:
Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test.
(The bill also makes the ban harder to evade by eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test.)
http://www.ibtimes.com/dianne-feinstein-gun-bill-text-list-guns-banned-details-assault-weapons-ban-2013-1037402 (http://www.ibtimes.com/dianne-feinstein-gun-bill-text-list-guns-banned-details-assault-weapons-ban-2013-1037402)
So we are going to loose everything with a pistol grip and , or thumbhole stock?
I won't really miss the grenade launcher, but the bayonette being gone will completely block me from comitting any crimes.
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In addition to any rifle that can mount a bayonette this list is specificly banned by name in the proposed law.
For no apparent reason.
http://www.ibtimes.com/dianne-feinstein-gun-bill-text-list-guns-banned-details-assault-weapons-ban-2013-1037402 (http://www.ibtimes.com/dianne-feinstein-gun-bill-text-list-guns-banned-details-assault-weapons-ban-2013-1037402)
List of Firearms Prohibited by Name
Rifles: All AK types, including the following: AK, AK47, AK47S, AK–74, AKM, AKS, ARM, MAK90, MISR, NHM90, NHM91, Rock River Arms LAR–47, SA85, SA93, Vector Arms AK–47, VEPR, WASR–10, and WUM, IZHMASH Saiga AK, MAADI AK47 and ARM, Norinco 56S, 56S2, 84S, and 86S, Poly Technologies AK47 and AKS; All AR types, including the following: AR–10, AR–15, Armalite M15 22LR Carbine, Armalite M15–T, Barrett REC7, Beretta AR–70, Bushmaster ACR, Bushmaster Carbon 15, Bushmaster MOE series, Bushmaster XM15, Colt Match Target Rifles, DoubleStar AR rifles, DPMS Tactical Rifles, Heckler & Koch MR556, Olympic Arms, Remington R–15 rifles, Rock River Arms LAR–15, Sig Sauer SIG516 rifles, Smith & Wesson M&P15 Rifles, Stag Arms AR rifles, Sturm, Ruger & Co. SR556 rifles; Barrett M107A1; Barrett M82A1; Beretta CX4 Storm; Calico Liberty Series; CETME Sporter; Daewoo K–1, K–2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C; Fabrique Nationale/FN Herstal FAL, LAR, 22 FNC, 308 Match, L1A1 Sporter, PS90, SCAR, and FS2000; Feather Industries AT–9; Galil Model AR and Model ARM; Hi-Point Carbine; HK–91, HK–93, HK–94, HK–PSG–1 and HK USC; Kel-Tec Sub–2000, SU–16, and RFB; SIG AMT, SIG PE–57, Sig Sauer SG 550, and Sig Sauer SG 551; Springfield Armory SAR–48; Steyr AUG; Sturm, Ruger Mini-14 Tactical Rife M–14/20CF; All Thompson rifles, including the following: Thompson M1SB, Thompson T1100D, Thompson T150D, Thompson T1B, Thompson T1B100D, Thompson T1B50D, Thompson T1BSB, Thompson T1–C, Thompson T1D, Thompson T1SB, Thompson T5, Thompson T5100D, Thompson TM1, Thompson TM1C; UMAREX UZI Rifle; UZI MiniCarbine, UZI Model A Carbine, and UZI Model B Carbine; Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78; Vector Arms UZI Type; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson Arms Linda Carbine.
Pistols: All AK–47 types, including the following: Centurion 39 AK pistol, Draco AK–47 pistol, HCR AK–47 pistol, IO Inc. Hellpup AK–47 pistol, Krinkov pistol, Mini Draco AK–47 pistol, Yugo Krebs Krink pistol; All AR–15 types, including the following: American Spirit AR–15 pistol, Bushmaster Carbon 15 pistol, DoubleStar Corporation AR pistol, DPMS AR–15 pistol, Olympic Arms AR–15 pistol, Rock River Arms LAR 15 pistol; Calico Liberty pistols; DSA SA58 PKP FAL pistol; Encom MP–9 and MP–45; Heckler & Koch model SP-89 pistol; Intratec AB–10, TEC–22 Scorpion, TEC–9, and TEC–DC9; Kel-Tec PLR 16 pistol; The following MAC types: MAC–10, MAC–11; Masterpiece Arms MPA A930 Mini Pistol, MPA460 Pistol, MPA Tactical Pistol, and MPA Mini Tactical Pistol; Military Armament Corp. Ingram M–11, Velocity Arms VMAC; Sig Sauer P556 pistol; Sites Spectre; All Thompson types, including the following: Thompson TA510D, Thompson TA5; All UZI types, including: Micro-UZI.
Shotguns: Franchi LAW–12 and SPAS 12; All IZHMASH Saiga 12 types, including the following: IZHMASH Saiga 12, IZHMASH Saiga 12S, IZHMASH Saiga 12S EXP–01, IZHMASH Saiga 12K, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–030, IZHMASH Saiga 12K–040 Taktika; Streetsweeper; Striker 12.
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People like Gen McCrystal & yourself apparently don't have the gonads to apparently ban semiautomatics, and instead play like they care and just ban the ones that look nastier than others. A semiautomatic, is a semiautomatic, is a semiautomatic. It's capabilities are equal to pretty much every other magazine fed semiautomatic
O for two? LOL That's what emotion can do, it would appear. Turn rational thought into some twisted rationalization train
There is a lot of diffrence in quality and capability between one and another wepon.
Despite this quibble , I agree with your basic premise , in that all of them are hugely dangerous to the unarmed.
Even the least effective , lowest quality ones.
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The legislation strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and state bans by:
Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test.
(The bill also makes the ban harder to evade by eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test.)
http://www.ibtimes.com/dianne-feinstein-gun-bill-text-list-guns-banned-details-assault-weapons-ban-2013-1037402 (http://www.ibtimes.com/dianne-feinstein-gun-bill-text-list-guns-banned-details-assault-weapons-ban-2013-1037402)
So we are going to loose everything with a pistol grip and , or thumbhole stock?
All cosmetic......as in looks nastier, more sinister. Doesn't change the function of the firearm, in any way shape or form, than those not on the libs' ban list. 1 pull, 1 round
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Assault Weapon Bans Have Been Proven to Be Effective
The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban was effective at reducing crime and getting these military-style weapons off our streets. Since the ban expired, more than 350 people have been killed and more than 450 injured by these weapons.
http://www.ibtimes.com/dianne-feinstein-gun-bill-text-list-guns-banned-details-assault-weapons-ban-2013-1037402 (http://www.ibtimes.com/dianne-feinstein-gun-bill-text-list-guns-banned-details-assault-weapons-ban-2013-1037402)
This is a rate that compares well with other rare types of injury, it is more than American Shark bites , less than lightning strikes.
But are all of these injurys and killings fairly counted as people who could not have been injured by other weapons?
This proposed law will be very irritating and slightly effective.
The greatest historical effect is that in the period that the public is under the threat of the immanant passage of this law, the people are stocking up as much as they can possibly afford.
So.......
I propose that sports cars and pickup trucks be added to the ban.
Not only are these vehickles responsible for many more deaths than are assault weapons , but in the time that people are in fear of the coming ban, the increase in business will rebuild Detroit to its greatest glory ever!
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(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s480x480/544053_10151277539021295_2073758527_n.jpg)
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You'll have to point out what bogus facts those would be, and how they are "bogus". Your say so, just doesn't cut it, I'm afraid
Found yet another inability to back up an "obvious" erroneous claim