DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: kimba1 on December 16, 2014, 02:19:50 PM
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it`s now been brought up that police should not charge people for resisting arrest since some are not really being arrested. I can`t really agree with that but dang it can`t think of why.
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There is none.....if a person is not in the process of being arrested, they can't and shouldn't be charged with that. Now, if there's other charges pending, and a person is not complying with the officer's instructions, then there can be a lawful detainment.....remember the Jhango gal? But that's not resisting arrest either. I think its the verbage being used, that makes all the difference, Kimba
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If someone was mistaken for someone else , and a policeman were trying to arrest the wrong guy , could there be a charge of resisting false arrest?
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If the police tried to arrest the wrong person, this would be grounds for a lawsuit.
If the person they were trying to arrest wrongfully were White or influential, their chances of winning that lawsuit would be greater.
Odds are a poor person would not sue unless some lawyer af=greed to take the case on a contingency basis.
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The key isn't the color, its the money. A black influential person is going to be far better off at winning some lawsuit, than some poor white person
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So what?
Since the average Black family has less than a dime of assets for every dollar that an average Black family has, it all comes down to the same thing: different standards of justice for Blacks than for Whites.
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So what?
So what is that here again, you inject race, into something that has nothing to do with race.
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If the person they were trying to arrest wrongfully were White or influential, their chances of winning that lawsuit would be greater.
True...but also true pretty much anywhere in the world.
Privilege is common all over the globe.
Not saying it is right, but it is and always has been...a fact of life.
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Of course it has a lot to do with race.
There is not much social mobility in this country. The only two recent candidates for presidents that were even middle class were Bob Dole and Bill Clinton.
If you start out rich, you have all sorts of obstacles removed. It multiplies your possibilities manyfold. Most Black people are poor, so they do not enjoy the delight of growing up rich.
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There is not much social mobility in this country.
Uh?
The US has huge upward mobilty compared to most places on earth.
And that's why so many millions and millions want to come here to get a fresh start at a chance to move up the ladder.
Hell tens of millions of people on earth still live in slavery...India, China, Pakistan still have millions living in slavery today in 2014.
Minority populations in the US are all over television, in movies, etc...thriving in the medical profession...etc...
My close friend from Morocco tells one thing he really loves about the US is the frredoms for any background.
He says "if I save up the cash I can walk into the finest 5 star hotel and get a room and be treated like royalty".
Back home in Morocco not so much.
Of couse as I stated previously privilege exists everywhere....but much less in US than most places on Earth.
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Of course it has a lot to do with race.
Of course, it doesn't. No one is discounting if you happen to be born in wealth, there are more options available, but that again has nothing to do with race. You can be dirt poor, and still make something of yourself, white or black. There is no right to equal outcomes. People have choices, and they have whatever motivation they wish to apply to those choices. That also includes poor choices, such as having children out of wedlock, with no father figure to instill a sense of morality & focus
All this is race neutral. A poor white kid is not going to have the same options as a rich black kid. Nor is it the function of the Government to try and give the poor white kid's parents more of the rich black kid's parents tax dollars, just because they have more. That removes incentive, and perpetuates the status quo of an ever widening income gap between the rich and poor.
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Upward mobility is greater in nearly every nation in Western Europe.
People try to get into the US because it is (a) easier to get here from the rest of the American and (b) it is simply a lot larger a place than most other immigrant countries.
The Republican'ts are currently ranting about the 5 million or so who would never have been deported anyway, being assured that they will have three years or so during which they might not be deported if they fit all the criteria.
We USED to have greater upward mobility, at least for White people. This is no longer the case.
In most of Western Europe the government pays for education through the postgraduate level.
In the US, many who graduate do so with a huge and crushing debt.
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In the US, many who graduate do so with a huge and crushing debt.
That is a troublesome point.
I know firsthand it is true.
What would improve this situation?
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In the US, many who graduate do so with a huge and crushing debt.
That is a troublesome point.
I know firsthand it is true.
Ditto. I came from a poor white family, heavy in debt, and had to live off welfare for many years, as my mom raised 3 kids alone. Yet she worked her ass off to get OFF of welfare, and succeeded. Not just in that, but instilling in the rest of us a "we can do it" mentality. I graduated with my own mountain of debt. Took over 2 decades to pay it off. It's not easy, but no one said life was easy. And you don't punish those who's life wasn't as hard as some others like myself. That's not fairness, that's jealously/envy.
Government can't placate the human condition. When that becomes the end-all game, where Government takes the place of individual choice/morality, then we cease to be the America that our Founders & folks like MLK envisioned
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There may be in some measure a technical fix.
You can get some real teaching on your computer and internet , sometimes free sometimes just a tiny fraction of the cost of university.
I am polishing my math a bit with Khan Academy, I am enjoying it a lot and it is completely self paced.
In Georgia we have the HOPE Grant which I have used a bit , which uses lotto money to subsidize students who can maintain a 3.0.
The change needed is greater availability and lesser cost for ever more needed useful education. Part of this is making it more availability at low cost , part of the solution is for greater enthusiasm on the part of students .
If better education is thrown at them , that does not make them soak it up.
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I am pretty sure that MLK would not be telling Black kids that they rules for dealing with the White cops are "comply or die".
I agree that the Internet and computer programs can be very useful as educational tools. My experience is that most students, White or Black, are far more interested in just passing the course than acquiring knowledge. That was true even when I was in high school.
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MLK would be telling all kids of all races to comply with an officer's instructions. In MLK's vision, all people are judged by the content of their character & their actions. Not by their skin color
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Yeah. I recall that when MLK got to the Pettis Bridge, he said, "The nice officers said we cannot cross the bridge, so let's all lie down so they can cuff us and sic the dogs on us".
Your knowledge of history is pathetic.
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Putting aside the attempted asinine analogy to present day, what I recall, and its on record, is MLK advocating the need to ignore color, and treat everyone equally. Not sure what planet you were on
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YOu are such a total simpleton sirs. This country does not treat Black and White people equally. The legal system and the economic system, is very discriminatory.
Someone ought to wave a wand and turn you into a Black guy.
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YOu are such a total simpleton sirs. This country does not treat Black and White people equally.
Because people like Sharpton, JJ, and yourself, refuse to treat people equally. You're on record as claiming how the black people need the white people's help. The complete polar opposite of MLK's vision. Now the legal system has its problems, but its not racially discriminatory. If anything, its more along the lines of financially discriminatory, in that those who are wealthy, be they black, white, brown, or green, are going to be able to hire better lawyers, than those who are dirt poor
And those who are dirt poor have had circumstances and choices that made them that way, be they black, white, brown, or green. The worse your choices, such as having children out of wedlock, and raising them without a father figure, the more likely that child is going to choose to do their own bad things in life.
There was a study I recall, that said that 3 things a person could do that would almost guarantee that they wouldn't end up poor. On the top of that list was don't have children until after you're married. It also included don't have children until after age 21, and IIRC, that any children, be in a mother/father family. Those 3 things could almost guarantee that a child wouldn't end up in poor or behaving in a thug-like manner that could lead to repetitive altercations with the police....and our legal system.
The common thread here is choices. Nothing to do with a racist system. Its the choices one makes that sets the stage for future events. The more the bad choices above are made, the greater % of bad that's likely to occur from those choices. And what has helped facilitate bad choices is Government enabling bad choices. All well intended, but done so without thought of repercussions. Just the desire to feel good that they're helping the less fortunate out, and who cares who's paying for it, or the ripple effects of more bad choices it causes. So long as folks like your self, feel better
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Everybody needs everybody's help. That is what society is all about. You do not understand the first thing about the civil rights struggle. You think that it is all over, even though the average Black family has less than one tenth the assets of the average White family.
No one can educate you, you are fucking hopeless.
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No, you went out of your way to claim how blacks could not and would not have succeeded in this country withOUT the white man's help. That's a judgement you made, based purely on skin color, that somehow blacks were less than capable of performing/achieving
And we are perhaps the most charitable and helpful country on the globe. I apparently know exponentially more about the civil rights "struggle" than you know spanish. There are reasons that blacks in general make less and find themselves in jail, in greater percentages than other races. And its NOT because the system is somehow racist. It's because of choices they, and more so, their mothers make, which sets them on such a path. Helped right along by Government "help", such as minimum wage laws and greater rewards for people who make bad choices, using other people's tax dollars
But its nice to see your 3rd grade potty mouth is still fully functional
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not really sure because of bad choices that blame should squarely be on blacks. I reflected on this on a earlier post the things that a black person has to deal with. ex. the act of returning a wallet could get you in trouble . being followed in a store. if you never experienced it I`m not you can say this is trivial. I did and seriously it`s not something you can shake off. I`ved spooked peopled for just returning a dropped item and been often told now you know what it like to be black.
treyvon`s picture was sanitized and people still saw a thug. not saying that kind of life effect all of them but enough to be noticeable. I`ve stated that blacks has excelled to every venture they`ve focused on and I get disagreement. why does such a statement upset people. here I said some black colleges has extreme academic standards and I got disagreement. my god niece`s relative is pushing to get her to one of those school because of her grades.
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I never said that, Kimba. Bad choices extend to all races. Specifically in laying the groundwork for future bad choices, regardless of race. And instead of allowing folks to learn from those bad choices, and deal with the repercussions, Government rewards them with subsidy after subsidy after tax payer payed subsidy. The rewarding then enables still more bad choices, which as you can see in the results, creates a massive ripple effect of greater probablility of disrespectiting authority, & thug-like, even criminal behavior. This applies to any and all races.
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but the things is we only hear the failure of these subsidies . I stated one security company hires at risk people by tax incentive had a very high success rate but noted only the small percent that failed tends to be the primary topic to be discussed .in fact I had to asked to even get that info. I personally know people who has a talent to make bad choices and it`s totally got nothing to do with these programs in fact they tend to get kicked out of those.
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As has been so often the case, its those few failures and "incidents" that screw things for the vast majority. The few gun crimes committed by mass murders is portrayed as some epidemic that requires massive gun control, is but 1 example. The point I'm making is that rewarding bad choices with Government susbidies enables even more bad choices, since the person(s) making the choices, knows that their behavior will be excused, if not rewarded.....with other people's $$$$
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well
the ones I think were talking about is too many for to know about but when it comes to debt I do know people who think a credit card is free money since they don`t think they need to pay it back because they`ll just simply declare bankruptcy . this has gone on for decades but I think rules have changed so such things can`t been done anymore. I think easy credit has worped our minds . the statement you have no money has less strength since you can still get a loan . we really should fear getting into debt more.
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I think easy credit has worped our minds . the statement you have no money has less strength since you can still get a loan . we really should fear getting into debt more.
So true