DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Richpo64 on November 30, 2007, 12:53:16 PM
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Calls in Sudan for Execution of Briton
Nov 30, 10:17 AM (ET)
By MOHAMED OSMAN
KHARTOUM, Sudan (AP) - Thousands of Sudanese, many armed with clubs and knives, rallied Friday in a central square and demanded the execution of a British teacher convicted of insulting Islam for allowing her students to name a teddy bear "Muhammad."
The protesters streamed out of mosques after Friday sermons, as pickup trucks with loudspeakers blared messages against Gillian Gibbons, the teacher who was sentenced Thursday to 15 days in prison and deportation. She avoided the more serious punishment of 40 lashes.
They massed in central Martyrs Square outside the presidential palace, where hundreds of riot police were deployed. They did not try to stop the rally, which lasted about an hour.
"Shame, shame on the U.K.," protesters chanted.
They called for Gibbons' execution, saying, "No tolerance: Execution," and "Kill her, kill her by firing squad."
The women's prison where Gibbons is being held is far from the square.
Several hundred protesters, not openly carrying weapons, marched about a mile away to Unity High School, where Gibbons worked. They chanted slogans outside the school, which is closed and under heavy security, then marched toward the nearby British Embassy. They were stopped by security forces two blocks away from the embassy.
The protest arose despite vows by Sudanese security officials the day before, during Gibbons' trial, that threatened demonstrations after Friday prayers would not take place. Some of the protesters carried green banners with the name of the Society for Support of the Prophet Muhammad, a previously unknown group.
Many protesters carried clubs, knives and axes - but not automatic weapons, which some have brandished at past government-condoned demonstrations. That suggested Friday's rally was not organized by the government.
A Muslim cleric at Khartoum's main Martyrs Mosque denounced Gibbons during one sermon, saying she intentionally insulted Islam. He did not call for protests, however.
"Imprisoning this lady does not satisfy the thirst of Muslims in Sudan. But we welcome imprisonment and expulsion," the cleric, Abdul-Jalil Nazeer al-Karouri, a well-known hard-liner, told worshippers.
"This an arrogant woman who came to our country, cashing her salary in dollars, teaching our children hatred of our Prophet Muhammad," he said.
Britain, meanwhile, pursued diplomatic moves to free Gibbons. Prime Minister Gordon Brown spoke with a member of her family to convey his regret, his spokeswoman said.
"He set out his concern and the fact that we were doing all we could to secure her release," spokeswoman Emily Hands told reporters.
Most Britons expressed shock at the verdict by a court in Khartoum, alongside hope it would not raise tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain.
"One of the good things is the U.K. Muslims who've condemned the charge as completely out of proportion," said Paul Wishart, 37, a student in London.
"In the past, people have been a bit upset when different atrocities have happened and there hasn't been much voice in the U.K. Islamic population, whereas with this, they've quickly condemned it."
Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, accused the Sudanese authorities of "gross overreaction."
"This case should have required only simple common sense to resolve. It is unfortunate that the Sudanese authorities were found wanting in this most basic of qualities," he said.
The Muslim Public Affairs Committee, a political advocacy group, said the prosecution was "abominable and defies common sense."
The Federation of Student Islamic Societies, which represents 90,000 Muslim students in Britain and Ireland, called on Sudan's government to free Gibbons, saying she had not meant to cause offense.
"We are deeply concerned that the verdict to jail a schoolteacher due to what's likely to be an innocent mistake is gravely disproportionate," said the group's president, Ali Alhadithi.
The Ramadhan Foundation, a Muslim youth organization, said Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir should pardon the teacher.
"The Ramadhan Foundation is disappointed and horrified by the conviction of Gillian Gibbons in Sudan," said spokesman Mohammed Shafiq.
Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, spiritual leader of the world's 77 million Anglicans, said Gibbons' prosecution and conviction was "an absurdly disproportionate response to what is at worst a cultural faux pas."
Foreign Secretary David Miliband summoned the Sudanese ambassador late Thursday to express Britain's disappointment with the verdict. The Foreign Office said Britain would continue diplomatic efforts to achieve "a swift resolution" to the crisis.
Gibbons was arrested Sunday after another staff member at the school complained that she had allowed her 7-year-old students to name a teddy bear Muhammad. Giving the name of the Muslim prophet to an animal or a toy could be considered insulting.
The case put Sudan's government in an embarrassing position - facing the anger of Britain on one side and potential trouble from powerful Islamic hard-liners on the other. Many saw the 15-day sentence as an attempt to appease both sides.
In The Times, columnist Bronwen Maddox said the verdict was "something of a fudge ... designed to give a nod to British reproof but also to appease the street."
Britain's response - applying diplomatic pressure while extolling ties with Sudan and affirming respect for Islam - had produced mixed results, British commentators concluded.
In an editorial, The Daily Telegraph said Miliband "has tiptoed around the case, avoiding a threat to cut aid and asserting that respect for Islam runs deep in Britain. Given that much of the government's financial support goes to the wretched refugees in Darfur and neighboring Chad, Mr. Miliband's caution is understandable."
Now, however, the newspaper said, Britain should recall its ambassador in Khartoum and impose sanctions on the Sudanese regime.
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Associated Press writers Jill Lawless, David Stringer and Kate Schuman in London contributed to this report.
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Where's the leaders of NOW, on this? Where's the outrage?
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NOW would most likely not find this relevent to thier cause.
I always thought how come they didn`t for the sake of equality ask for susan smith`s death .
it`s just don`t seem fair women can`t get the same punishment as men
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NOW would most likely not find this relevent to thier cause.
Why? To politically incorrect? No Republican to bash along the way? A woman, goes to an impoverished country, (her CHOICE BTW, as she wasn't mandated or ordered) to teach children, names a teddy bear after the name OF A CHILD, that the CLASS decided on, and this is not a relevent matter to them?? Does she need to be a Democrat?, or perhaps a member of the Teacher's Union??
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>>NOW would most likely not find this relevent to thier cause.<<
I'm sure you're correct.
NOW is only interested in the liberal/communist agenda as is evidenced by their support for Bill Clinton who is a serial abuser of women and most probably a rapist.
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I meant how is this a women`s issue
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I meant how is this a women`s issue
Well, let's see. Involves a woman, who's a teacher, being singled out in some form of severely unfair punishment, by a government entity. I have a better question, how is it not a woman's issue?
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I must have some serious sexist blingspot.
It just don`t seem like a womens issue.
the point you brought still don`t seem to involve the fact she`s female.
do I have to go to sensitivity class or something
I`m really not getting it
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Can't help ya then, Kimba
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It's NOT a women's issue because the outrage wouldn't have been any different had a male teacher done the same thing. Women's issues involve sex-based discrimination against women. Or "gender-based," to use more PC language.
The outrage was over the fact that an infidel (male or female is immaterial) had given the Prophet's name to an animal. No feminist issue there.
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Can't help you either, Tee. Then again, that goes without saying
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I don't think it is a gender based issue either.
But it certainly is good example why cultural awareness and assimilation is important.
When in Rome.....
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<<Can't help you either, Tee. >>
Uhhh . . . That's OK, sirs. Really.
Don't worry about it.
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I'm not. Never have
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Not sure how this instance is much different than salman rushdie or the muhammad cartoon.
The 15 day sentence is symbolic and the crowds are just out for the entertainment.
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<<Not sure how this instance is much different than salman rushdie or the muhammad cartoon. >>
Rushdie obviously knew what he was saying and didn't give a shit whether or not it insulted the religion or some Muslims thought it did, and the Mohammed cartoon obviously was offensive and probably delliberately so. Gillian Gibson didn't seem to have any intention of insulting anyone and apparently didn't even name the bear herself but went along with the class without realizing the implications.
The Sudanese court didn't exactly do the right thing, but they didn't go overboard either. The crowd (a) was not government-approved and (b) didn't represent more than a fringe element in the population. I come to the latter conclusion merely by the relatively small size and short duration of the protest. "Thousands" of protestors is a pretty small affair. A popular outrage could have put "hundreds of thousands" into the streets.
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actually this would make islam a more unique religion
meaning it`s immune to public critique
since nobody is allowed to say anything bad about it
and when I say nobody,I mean everybody in this planet
here in the united states no one is allowed to publicly do anything bad about islam.
thiers alot of racist stupid people in the U.S.
notice none harning the kuran.
southpark did one on mohammed and it`ll never be aired
the creators said they understand not wanting to get bombed
if you think about it ,ther taliban kinda won.
since globally people are not allowed to make fun of this one singular religion.
we can say here it`s not a fun religion but if we did anything public about it`s icon
we are takeing our life in our hands
the religion of peace tag is getting to be a harder sell
I might be peeing the 3rd rail for that one.
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<<actually this would make islam a more unique religion
meaning it`s immune to public critique
since nobody is allowed to say anything bad about it
and when I say nobody,I mean everybody in this planet>>
All religions go through various stages of development. Islam is a relatively young religion - - it's prophet was born in the 6th century A.D.which was about 15 centuries back. When Christianity was about the same age as that (say the 15th century AD) it was pretty much immune to public critique as well. If you said anything bad about it, or even if you belonged to a prohibited sect of it, the consequences could be pretty gruesome. You could face all the tortures of the Spanish Inquisition and even in England or Scotland you could be burned at the stake.
Religion is pretty much a senseless and illogical belief system and the easiest way to keep the schmucks in line is with brute force and instilling the fear of God into them by horrible public tortures and executions. Otherwise most sane and normal people would just say, "This is fucking bullshit" and walk out on the whole thing. Over time, the rulers of states realize they need scientists and logic more than they need priests, because science and logic will always find the friendliest environment, and if that happens to be in another country, you can bet that that country will have superior weapons and tactics before too long. So the rulers need to sacrifice some of the priestly freedoms to attract science and logic and of course this has led to a great weakening of religious power. They now can't enforce a state religion or torture and murder non-believers. What happened to Christianity will over time happen to Islam too.
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uhm
wasn`t islam like that 30 years ago?
jordan had nude beaches then,I think
the middle east in the recent past was quite different than today.
a downward spiral that hasn`t really stop yet.
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<<wasn`t islam like that 30 years ago?
jordan had nude beaches then,I think
the middle east in the recent past was quite different than today.
a downward spiral that hasn`t really stop yet.>>
News to me that ANY Muslim country EVER had nude beaches. Lebanon maybe, but Lebanon's a Christian and Muslim country.
In any event, I was talking about the religion itself, not the countries where the practitioners of the religion are a majority. They're like any other countries, in that a conflict exists between religious and secular trends in the society, and it's a constant state of flux. Sometimes the religious get the upper hand and sometimes they lose it.
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She has been pardoned by the Sudanese President
Article (http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-af/2007/dec/03/120300773.html)
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Ponders whether the paperwork will be completed before what is left of her 15 day sentence is served.
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Ponders what the U.S. would be like if the same parents who were "offended" in sudan were similar to those offended when the mere reference of Christmas is made by a teacher during the "holiday season", or even worse, speaking about the birth of that false god, Christ. 40 lashes as well
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thanks rich
just more sicko from the religion of peace
Latest Offerings from the Religion of Peace
12/3/2007 (Qila Saifullah, Pakistan) - The Taliban is suspected in the bombing of a school that leaves six teenaged boys dead.
12/2/2007 (Charsadda, Pakistan) - Religious extremists open fire on a cockfight, killing three civilians.
12/2/2007 (Sopore, India) - Muslim militants abduct a 22-year-old seminary student and slit his throat.
12/2/2007 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - Two civilians are shot to death in their pickup truck by Muslim radicals.
12/2/2007 (Baqubah, Iraq) - A suicide bomber blows apart four Iraqis.
12/2/2007 (Medina, Somalia) - Islamists kill two civilians with a roadside bomb.
Behold the Peace of Islam: Picture of the Week
(http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/Sudan-Teddy1.jpg)
Can you guess why teddy bears and cartoons bother Muslims more
than the act of killing in the name of Islam? (Hint: it's the religion).
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I'm not. Never have
I knew that!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/82/Mad30.JPG)
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Ponders what the U.S. would be like if the same parents who were "offended" in sudan were similar to those offended when the mere reference of Christmas is made by a teacher during the "holiday season", or even worse, speaking about the birth of that false god, Christ. 40 lashes as well
In this country i doubt seriously that there is jail time attached to a nativity scene. Nor is there jail time for a Christ in urine exhibit.
But at the same time whilst looking down our noses at the sudanese we might want to reconsider why there is jail time for selling battery powered dildoes in Alabama and years attached to being caught with a bag of pot in Texas.
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Apparently knute has a need to worry about Tee. One ponders why ;D
Ponders what the U.S. would be like if the same parents who were "offended" in sudan were similar to those offended when the mere reference of Christmas is made by a teacher during the "holiday season", or even worse, speaking about the birth of that false god, Christ. 40 lashes as well
In this country i doubt seriously that there is jail time attached to a nativity scene. Nor is there jail time for a Christ in urine exhibit.
Yet, it was parents who apparently were "offended" that initiated this Sudanese bru-ha-ha. I was simply pondering that if the same parents who are offended at the mere mention of Chritianity in the school system in this country, would advocate lashes & jail time to those teachers who dared to offend them
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jordan had nude beaches then,I think
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Jordan would have a problem with a nude beach, I think. I am wondering where one might put a nude beach in Jordan. I don't think any part of Jordan has a beach. Jordan is pretty short on water.
Maybe on the Dead Sea? Does Jordan touch the Gulf of Aqaba?
Lebanon and Bahrein are the most open Arab countries. I don't think even Turkey has any nude beaches.
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<<Ponders what the U.S. would be like if the same parents who were "offended" in sudan were similar to those offended when the mere reference of Christmas is made by a teacher during the "holiday season", or even worse, speaking about the birth of that false god, Christ. 40 lashes as well>>
That's funny, I was just pondering what the U.S. would be like if the "conservative Christians" and their supporters in Congress were like those offended Sudanese parents. A Protection of Religious Freedom Act providing a death penalty for the practice of any non-Christian religion (40 lashes and ten years for Mormon first offenders?) A Truth in Science Act, with twenty-five years in an Alaskan "re-education camp" for first-offence teachers of evolution?
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<<Ponders what the U.S. would be like if the same parents who were "offended" in sudan were similar to those offended when the mere reference of Christmas is made by a teacher during the "holiday season", or even worse, speaking about the birth of that false god, Christ. 40 lashes as well>>
That's funny, I was just pondering what the U.S. would be like if the "conservative Christians" and their supporters in Congress were like those offended Sudanese parents. A Protection of Religious Freedom Act providing a death penalty for the practice of any non-Christian religion (40 lashes and ten years for Mormon first offenders?) A Truth in Science Act, with twenty-five years in an Alaskan "re-education camp" for first-offence teachers of evolution?
Even when Scopes lost his court case , he did no jail time.
The excitement was high but the stakes were low , still are.
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then i think it`s lebenon
I stated I wasn`t quite sure which country
jordan for some reason poped in my head
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I was just pondering what the U.S. would be like if the "conservative Christians" and their supporters in Congress were like those offended Sudanese parents. A Protection of Religious Freedom Act providing a death penalty for the practice of any non-Christian religion (40 lashes and ten years for Mormon first offenders?) A Truth in Science Act, with twenty-five years in an Alaskan "re-education camp" for first-offence teachers of evolution?
Funny how the only time I see Christian Conservatives "offended" is when their religion is to be silenced, for the sake of "diversity", while other religions, notably Islam is to be warmly accepted, embraced, and even have times in class where you dress the part and practice reading the Koran. The only re-education camps I see being advocated would likely come from those who vitriolically oppose any hint of Christ or Christianity anywhere near their children, while in, or even around school. Perhaps we can apply the 25yrs towards violating the Progress for Diversity Act, where a saturation of intolerance towards tolerance is implanted via surgical chip. All paid for by "the rich" via a new tax deemed necessary to "invest" for the children, of course
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<<Even when Scopes lost his court case , he did no jail time.
<<The excitement was high but the stakes were low , still are.>>
I realize that. I was just trying to throw some light on sirs' outrageous comparison between the Sudanese parents demanding the teacher's execution and those Americans who insist on Church-State separation as per the Constitution. Of course, none of those who insist upon Church-State separation have ever demanded the death penalty for violators, but sirs will go on with his absurd ponderings regardless of their complete divorce from any semblance of reality as the rest of us know it.
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..."those Americans who insist on Church-State separation as per the Constitution..."
Have not read the constitution.