Author Topic: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...  (Read 1344 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

hnumpah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
  • You have another think coming. Use it.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« on: July 17, 2008, 09:55:55 PM »
CNN reporter criticizes TSA, finds self on terror watch list
David Edwards and Nick Juliano

The post-9/11 airline watch list that is supposed to keep terrorists off of airplanes has swelled to more than 1 million names, including at least one investigative reporter who had been critical of the Transportation Security Agency, which maintains the watch list.

CNN's Drew Griffin reported on the bloating of the watch list, which an ACLU count pegged at 1,001,308 names Wednesday afternoon. Griffin's is one of those names, he says.

"Coincidentally, this all began in May, shortly after I began a series of investigative reports critical of the TSA. Eleven flights now since May 19. On different airlines, my name pops up forcing me to go to the counter, show my identification, sometimes the agent has to make a call before I get my ticket," Griffin reported. "What does the TSA say? Nothing, at least nothing on camera. Over the phone a public affairs worker told me again I'm not on the watch list, and don't even think that someone in the TSA or anyone else is trying to get even."

The TSA, which is a part of the Department of Homeland Security, said Griffin's name wasn't even on the watch list, and the agency blamed the airlines for the delays the reporter experienced. The airlines, on the other hand, said they were simply following a list provided by TSA.

While it wouldn't be much of a stretch for plenty of people to believe the TSA would exercise its revenge via watch-list meddling, an agency spokesman insists that just isn't the case.

"So if there's any thought or shadow of a thought that TSA somehow put you on a watch list because of your reporting," spokesman Christopher White said, "it is absolutely fabricated."

This video (available at http://rawstory.com/news/2008/CNN_reporter_wants_off_terror_watch_0716.html) is from CNN's American Morning, broadcast July 16, 2008.

"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Lanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2008, 10:34:36 PM »
Hey Hnumpah
This story goes along with yours:
How Bush's No Fly List is Making Americans Unsafe
Airport Gestapo

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

The Bush Regime’s “terrorist” protection schemes have reached the height of total incompetence and utter absurdity.  According to the American Civil Liberties Union, a private organization that defends the US Constitution that inattentive Americans neglect, there are now one million names on the “terrorist” watch list. 

One of them is that of former Assistant US Attorney General Jim Robinson, whose top security clearances are current.  Every time Mr.Robinson flies away on business, he is delayed by a totally incompetent “terrorist” protection racket that cannot tell a person named Jim Robinson, who served in the highest echelons of the US government, from a Muslim terrorist.

What confidence can we have in a regime that is incapable of differentiating an Assistant US Attorney General from a terrorist?

Mr. Robinson said: “If I were convinced that America is a safer place because I get hassled at the airport, I might put up with it, but I doubt it.  I expect my story is similar to hundreds of thousands of people who are on this list and find themselves inconvenienced.”

“Hundreds of thousands of people” on a watch list that they have no business being on?

Yes. “Members of Congress, nuns, war heroes and other ‘suspicious characters,’ with names like Robert Johnson and Gary Smith, have become trapped in the Kafkaesque clutches of this list, with little hope of escape,” said Caroline Fredrickson, director of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office.

And this is America, not Nazi Germany?

How can Airport “Security” possibly protect anyone when the idiots cannot differentiate a  high level American government official from a terrorist?

Do you really believe there are one million terrorists and nothing has blown up in the US since September 11, 2001 (assuming you believe the government’s account of that episode)? 

How can there possibly be 1,000,000 terrorists and America still be in one piece?  If there were 1,000,000 terrorists, America would be in ruins.  According to the Bush Regime’s line, it only took a handful of terrorists to destroy America’s tallest skyscrapers and a section of the Pentagon and to send the President of the United States scurrying to a hiding place.

One million terrorists could bring America to its knees, and they wouldn’t need to fly on airplanes to accomplish this.

What we are witnessing with the one million person “watch list” is bureaucracy run amok.  One Million Terrorists makes the danger seem overwhelming.  Such overwhelming danger rationalizes the aggressive behavior of the bullies and thugs attracted by the power of confiscating your toothpaste and bottled water and riffling your belongings in your luggage. 

Show your ID.
Take off your shoes.

Take off your belt.
Take off your jacket.

Empty your pockets.

Don’t complain about being searched without a warrant or you will miss your flight.  You might be arrested, handcuffed, kicked and otherwise abused--the fate of many American citizens.

The morons who comprise the US government call the “watch list” one of the government’s “most effective tools in the fight against terrorism.”

What an effective tool it is!  It cannot tell the difference between Jim Robinson and a Muslim terrorist.

The “watch list” has not apprehended a single terrorist, but thousands of American citizens have been inconvenienced and arrested.

The ACLU says that “putting a million names on a watch list is a guarantee that the list will do more harm than good by interfering with the travel of innocent people and wasting huge amounts of our limited security resources on bureaucratic wheel-spinning.”

It is worse than that.  What the “watch list” or “no-fly list” is doing is training Americans to submit to warrantless searches, to abandon their constitutional rights, and to submit to humiliation by thugs and bullies.  A Gestapo is being trained to have no qualms about searching and intimidating fellow citizens, using any excuse to delay or arrest them.  Americans are being taught to use arbitrary power and to submit to arbitrary power.  In the false name of “safety from terrorists,” Americans are being made the least safe people on earth.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.He can be reached at: paulcraigroberts@yahoo.com

 http://www.counterpunch.org/
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2008, 11:38:58 PM »
The little absurdities of a police state - - the bigger ones come later.

kimba1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8013
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2008, 11:57:28 PM »
the problem is not how his name got on the list ,it`s that if they got a list.
why on earth are they even bothering barring people to get on the plane and are not investigating these people?
doesn`t being on the list means they shouild be talked to ,so they don`t be put on the list?
they is not reason to have a list at all

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 12:17:54 AM »
i go through the same extra security these guys do and i am not on the list.

In fact anyone with a stent or other implant that disallows them from going through the regular check points is in the same boat i am.


Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 12:49:55 AM »
<<In fact anyone with a stent or other implant that disallows them from going through the regular check points is in the same boat i am.>>

I've had two stents for the past three years and nobody ever told me not to to through regular airport security.   As far as I know there are no ferrous metal parts to a stent, they have no moving parts and there is no danger whatever posed by wanding or any other procedure I've been subjected to.  I can't recall a single incident of setting off alarms, but I don't remember if anyone wanding me ever asked if I had a stent, which if asked might have indicated an above-average signal due to the stents.  Certainly the stent never caused me any problems, but now you've got me concerned.  Are you aware of any reason why a guy with a stent SHOULDN'T go through normal airport security?

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2008, 01:28:06 AM »
Last time i flew i lit the boards like a Christmas Tree. I have three stents. They are made of metal, stainless steel mesh  i think. I was given a card to show to security when i had the stents put in. Google says the walk thru detectors aren't  harmful but google also shows that the hand held wands could cause problems.

What i know is the machine detected the stents, i could feel a burn in the chest area after i walked through and i had to be hand checked off to the side to get on board.




Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2008, 12:56:31 PM »
Holy shit, I am writing to the hospital right now and if they failed to warn me of any hazard, there is going to be hell to pay.  "Stainless steel mesh" does sound familiar.  Thanks, BT.

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 04:58:59 PM »
I'm posting from Gen. Mitchell Airport right now. I was just selected for special processing (first time in like 3 years). No buzzing (matter of fact, they told me that I would receive special processing before I even went through the metal detectors).

When I investigated a bit (because my original flight was delayed, there was a chance I would miss my connection, and I switched to another, direct flight so I had time) I found out that a number of things would trigger the special processing, and one of them was switching flights at the last moment. It's amazing what you can find out from the TSA people just by cracking a few jokes and being friendly. Guess the Wisconsin cheese looked like explosives on the xray, 'cause they wiped it down for residue. ;-)
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

hnumpah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
  • You have another think coming. Use it.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2008, 11:07:39 AM »
Maryland troopers spied on activist groups
Protesters added to database of terrorist suspects
Shaun Waterman UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL
Friday, July 18, 2008
 
Undercover Maryland state troopers infiltrated three groups advocating peace and protesting the death penalty ? attending meetings and sending reports on their activities to U.S. intelligence and military agencies, according to documents released Thursday.

The documents show the activities occurred from at least March 2005 to May 2006 and that officers used false names, which the documents referred to as "covert identities" - to open e-mail accounts to receive messages from the groups.

Also included in the 46 pages of documents, obtained by the Maryland chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, is an account of an activist's name being entered into a federally funded database designed to share information among state, local and federal law-enforcement agencies on terrorist and drug trafficking suspects.

ACLU attorney David Rocah said state police violated federal laws prohibiting departments that receive federal funds from maintaining databases with information about political activities and affiliations.

The activist was identified as Max Obuszewski. His "primary crime" was entered into the database as "terrorism - anti govern(ment)." His "secondary crime" was listed as "terrorism - anti-war protestors." The database is known as the Washington-Baltimore High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, or HIDTA.

"This is not supposed to happen in America," said Mr. Rocah. "In a free society, which relies on the engagement of citizens in debate and protest and political activity to maintain that freedom ... you should be able to attend a meeting about an issue you care about without having to worry that government spies are entering your name into a database used to track alleged terrorists and drug traffickers."

Mr. Rocah called the surveillance "Kafka-esque insanity."

State police Chief Col. Terrence B. Sheridan said the agency "does not inappropriately curtail the expression or demonstration of the civil liberties of protesters or organizations acting lawfully."

The surveillance of Mr. Obuszewski, of Pledge of Resistance-Baltimore, and another person came to light during his trial for trespassing and disorderly conduct in a 2004 protest outside the National Security Agency's headquarters in Fort Meade, Md.

Documents released by the prosecution revealed that the protesters had been under surveillance by an entity called the Baltimore Intelligence Unit.

The Maryland ACLU sued last month, claiming the state police refused to release public documents about the surveillance of peace activists.

The documents, which include intelligence reports and printouts from the database, show that several undercover officers from the state police's Homeland Security and Intelligence Division attended meetings of three groups: Mr. Obuszewski's group; the Coalition to End the Death Penalty; and the Committee to Save Vernon Evans, a convicted murderer who was slated for execution.

The documents show at least 288 hours of surveillance over the 14-month period. The undercover officers attended at least 20 organizing meetings at community halls and churches and a dozen rallies against the death penalty, including several at the state's SuperMax jail in Baltimore.

Included in the documents are references to a proposed sit-in at the offices of Baltimore County State's Attorney SandraA. O'Connor. However, they show no trooper reports of violence or threats of violence. Organizers repeatedly stressed the importance of peaceful and orderly demonstrations, the documents show.

"There were about 75-80 protestors at the rally and none participated in any type of civil disobedience or illegal acts," said one report of a demonstration against the death penalty at the SuperMax jail. "Protesters were even careful to move out of the way for Division of Correction employees who were going into the parking lot for work."

Still, information about the protesters and their activities was sent to seven agencies, including the National Security Agency and an unnamed military intelligence official.

"Americans have the right to peaceably assemble with others of a like mind and speak out about what they believe in," Mr. Rocah said. "For state agencies to spend hundreds of hours entering information about lawful and peaceful political activities into a criminal database is beyond unconscionable. It is a waste of taxpayer dollars, which does nothing to make us safer from actual terrorists or drug dealers."

http://washtimes.com/news/2008/jul/18/maryland-troopers-spied-on-activist-groups/
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Um, no, you're not on any watch list...
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2008, 12:15:10 PM »
Some people probably think the problem will be solved by removing Mr. Obuszewski's name from the database.  That's bullshit.  Lists connect to lists.  Right now he's probably on dozens of lists and removal from one doesn't equate to removal from the others.

This problem won't be solved without severe disciplinary action.  All that's available right now is termination of employment, and that should be (but won't) exercised immediately against all officers involved and any superiors with knowledge of the activity.  (I realize that termination is a lengthy and difficult proceeding but it should be initiated immediately.)  That way, not only would cops be reluctant to overstep their bounds, but any lower-level cop ordered to start spying on citizens would really have to think twice about it. 

In addition, if the legislature had any balls (ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, as if!) this kind of police-state activity would be criminalized immediately to prevent any repetitions.

Land of the free, my ass!