House finally gets a clue...

[Religious Dick]

House defeats $700B financial markets bailout
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Sep 29, 2:21 PM (ET)

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS

(AP) House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., right, gestures during a news conference on Capitol Hill...
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WASHINGTON (AP) - The House on Monday defeated a $700 billion emergency rescue package, ignoring urgent pleas from President Bush and bipartisan congressional leaders to quickly bail out the staggering financial industry.

Stocks plummeted on Wall Street even before the 228-205 vote to reject the bill was announced on the House floor.

When the critical vote was tallied, too few members of the House were willing to support the unpopular measure with elections just five weeks away. Ample no votes came from both the Democratic and Republican sides of the aisle.

Bush and a host of leading congressional figures had implored the lawmakers to pass the legislation despite howls of protest from their constituents back home.

The vote had been preceded by unusually aggressive White House lobbying, and spokesman Tony Fratto said that Bush had used a "call list" of people he wanted to persuade to vote yes as late as just a short time before the vote.

Lawmakers shouted news of the plummeting Dow Jones average as lawmakers crowded on the House floor during the drawn-out and tense call of the roll, which dragged on for roughly 40 minutes as leaders on both sides scrambled to corral enough of their rank-and-file members to support the deeply unpopular measure.

They found only two.

Bush and his economic advisers, as well as congressional leaders in both parties had argued the plan was vital to insulating ordinary Americans from the effects of Wall Street's bad bets. The version that was up for vote Monday was the product of marathon closed-door negotiations on Capitol Hill over the weekend.

"We're all worried about losing our jobs," Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., declared in an impassioned speech in support of the bill before the vote. "Most of us say, 'I want this thing to pass, but I want you to vote for it - not me.'"

With their dire warnings of impending economic doom and their sweeping request for unprecedented sums of money and authority to bail out cash-starved financial firms, Bush and his economic chiefs have focused the attention of world markets on Congress, Ryan added.

"We're in this moment, and if we fail to do the right thing, Heaven help us," he said.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080929/D93GHQRO2.html

[sirs]

[Xavier_Onassis]

Where's Phil Gramm, Juniorbush and McCain in that toon?

[BT]

             Ayes   Noes   PRES   NV
Democratic      140            95       
Republican       65           133       1
Independent               
TOTALS      205           228       1

Current House breakdown:
dems:  233
gop:    202

[Knutey]

             Ayes   Noes   PRES   NV
Democratic      140            95       
Republican       65           133       1
Independent               
TOTALS      205           228       1

Current House breakdown:
dems:  233
gop:    202

Your answer is that damn few Repubs believe Bush anymore? They should know. They know him best.

[Amianthus]

Cleaned up a bit:

Ayes    Noes    PRES    NV Democratic 140 95 Republican 65 133 1    Independent TOTALS 205 228 1

Current House breakdown:

dems: 233 gop: 202

[Michael Tee]

The cartoon was just devoid of any credibility - - all the blame resting on two Democrats after 8 years of Republican rule?  I mean, come on . . . !

There was something in the legislation that just couldn't be swallowed.  And yet I had read earlier that Paul Krugman, who I have a lot of regard for, was supporting it.

It's over my head and there isn't enough data.  Were there any projections of how the economy was expected to perform after the funds were authorized?  My one major concern is that the same conduct that led into the mess in the first place could continue afterwards.  Everyone says, "Let the market work its magic" but the "magic" of the market seems to operate in a way that enriches a tiny minority beyond anyone's wildest dreams and leaves the other 99% of the population fucked right up the ass.  To what extent is dogmatic free-market anti-statism holding up a solution that combines bail-out with stricter market controls?

Toronto Stock Exchange just had its biggest one-day loss in history, as, I think, did the Dow.  I am wondering, as I always have, how it is necessarily bad for anything - - equities, houses, bread or vodka - - to fall in price?  Every transaction involves a buyer and a seller, and what's bad for the seller is good for the buyer and vice versa.  Maybe we should look a little more closely at who is screaming that the sky is falling - - homeowners or home buyers?  Borrowers or lenders?  Doctors or patients?  I just have this feeling of not knowing WTF is really going down, who's telling it straight and who's bullshitting?  I have a gut feeling that only some pretty severe government intervention in and control of the markets, as in China, can get a grip on things, but that the ideology which derived from 70 years of relentless anti-Communist propagandizing has conditioned the general public to react like Pavlov's dogs, but in a very negative way, to any hint of communism or socialism, no matter how counter-productive such reflexes may be.

[Plane]

Where is the capitol that was present three weeks ago?

Same place your laps goes when you stand up, same place the TV picture goes when you change the channell , same place your pond goes when the floodgates open.


Capitol is not entirely tangible , some of it is of course , but some capitol is entirely made up of promises and trust , the failure of trust reduces the force of promises and the amount of capitol availible is magicly cut to a shadow of itself .


Markest all around the world are takeing a pay cut to all investors from the governments of England and China to the retiree depending on an invested stipend.

It isn't wrong to accept a mans word as haveing value , a mortguage is a ptomise to deliver and should be as good as his word , even better when you require him to buy insurance that will cover him in his demise. But not everyones word is equal , most of even the lowly rated mortguages will be paid, but at some point enough promises were broken to remove the strength of trust from the system.

How many proken promises does it take to trash the table?  Seems like a small percentage , like a very small percentage of table top covered in manure can spoil a banquet , even though most of the table is covered with perfectly good food.

[Christians4LessGvt]

[Xavier_Onassis]

Well over half of the national debt was accumulated by Republicans claiming to be Conservatives who favored "less government". They all professed to be Christians, too.

[BT]

They all professed to be Christians, too.

Thought you guys didn't like religious belief encroaching on government actions. I don't see why they are Christians or Buddhists, matters in that context.

[Xavier_Onassis]

They all professed to be Christians, too.

Thought you guys didn't like religious belief encroaching on government actions. I don't see why they are Christians or Buddhists, matters in that context.

++++++============================
It doesn't matter to me, but it probably does to a guy who calls him Christians 4 less government. He doesn't call himself Video Store Clerks for Less government, Noodle salesmen 4 less government, or even Purveyors of small dogs to Hollywood Starlets 4 less government.

[BT]

It doesn't matter to me,

Yet it was you who pointed it out.

I'm sure it it were pertinent to CU4LG he would point it out.

[Christians4LessGvt]

BT...the man is obsessed with my name

and he appears unable to comprehend that the "lesser of two evils" is still an evil

[Xavier_Onassis]

and he appears unable to comprehend that the "lesser of two evils" is still an evil


So you think the Republicans are evil, just less so?