Author Topic: Seasteading  (Read 1133 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BSB

  • Guest
Seasteading
« on: December 06, 2011, 03:52:24 PM »
Seasteading: Libertarians dream of creating self-ruling floating cities. But can the many obstacles, not least the engineering ones, be overcome?

Dec 3rd 2011 | from the print edition
 
THE Pilgrims who set out from England on the Mayflower to escape an intolerant, over-mighty government and build a new society were lucky to find plenty of land in the New World on which to build it. Some modern libertarians, such as Peter Thiel, one of the founders of PayPal, dream of setting sail once more to found colonies of like-minded souls. By now, however, all the land on Earth has been claimed by the governments they seek to escape. So, they conclude, they must build new cities on the high seas, known as seasteads.

It is not a completely crazy idea: large maritime structures that resemble seasteads already exist, after all. Giant cruise liners host thousands of guests on lengthy voyages in luxurious surroundings. Offshore oil platforms provide floating accommodation for hundreds of workers amid harsh weather and high waves. Then there is the Principality of Sealand, a concrete sea fort constructed off Britain’s coast during the second world war. It is now occupied by a family who have fought various lawsuits to try to get it recognised as a sovereign state.

Each of these examples, however, falls some way short of the permanent, self-governing and radically innovative ocean-based colonies imagined by the seasteaders. To realise their dream they must overcome some tricky technical, legal and cultural problems. They must work out how to build seasteads in the first place; find a way to escape the legal shackles of sovereign states; and give people sufficient reason to move in. With financing from Mr Thiel and others, a think-tank called the Seasteading Institute (TSI) has been sponsoring studies on possible plans for ocean-based structures and on the legal and financial questions they raise. And although true seasteads may still be a distant dream, the seasteading movement is producing some novel ideas for ocean-based businesses that could act as stepping stones towards their ultimate goal.

Floating some ideas

Seastead designs tend to fall into one of three categories: ship-shaped structures, barge-like structures based on floating pontoons and platforms mounted on semi-submersible columns, like offshore oil installations. Over-ordering by cruise lines means there are plenty of big, second-hand liners going cheap.

Ship-shaped structures can pack in more apartments and office space for a given cost than the other two types of design, but they have a big drawback: their tendency to roll in choppy seas. Cruise ships can sail around storms, but static seasteads need to be able to ride them out. And the stabilisers on big cruisers only work in moderate seas and when the ship is moving.

more at: http://www.economist.com/node/21540395

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 11:15:26 PM »
  Even civilian ships use a hiarchy of organisation, democracy for all of its virtues isn't the fastest way to respond to emergency.

    The Titanic sank when the crew made a really small mistake , made possible by a captain making a big mistake in response to an owner making a wrong assumption.

    Would a floating anarchy be safe to ride? Would the watches be stood all night and would the fires be put out and the navigation be done expertly?

    Might the sort of top down error that sank the Titanic be less likely to sink an anarchy run ship?

      What if the state was an anarchy , so that the citizens obeyed only volentarily. But the crew was expert and disiplined and obedient to the officers? So that the living space and off time was Anarchy , but the navigation and powerplant was strictly run, could one have the be best of both worlds or is it hard to have cake and eat it too?

kimba1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8012
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 11:47:20 PM »
I got no knowledge about boats. My question how long can a ship stay aloat without drydock maintenance. My bass master turned useless after 15 years of neglegence.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 12:12:00 AM »
I got no knowledge about boats. My question how long can a ship stay aloat without drydock maintenance. My bass master turned useless after 15 years of neglegence.

Depends on how it is built.

   Steel needs repainting periodicly, wrought iron lasts whether painted or not.

    If it was desired to stay unmaintained for a very long time , I would vote for concrete.

http://www.concreteships.org/history/

Quote
Numerous small concrete boats were built in the U.K in the 1910's. One of these ships, the Violette, was built in 1917 and is currently used as a boating clubhouse on the Medway River in England. This makes her the oldest concrete ship still afloat.


A Ferro-Cement sailboat (from FerroBoats.com)


BSB

  • Guest
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 09:09:36 AM »
They're not talking about ships. These would be stationary platforms.

BSB

kimba1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8012
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 10:54:38 AM »
I keep thinking of waterworld

Waterworld Atoll, Universal City, CA


Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 08:52:53 PM »
They're not talking about ships. These would be stationary platforms.

BSB

Hull materiel would have the same problems whether stationary or not.

There are only a few ocean spots that are shallow enough for permanant ancorage , but also far from national territory claim.

Barges made of concrete are already availible , I don't know how much something like that can be scaled up, but I suppose that bigs ones could be bound together.


http://www.nachi.org/inspecting-floating-homes.htm


Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2011, 11:09:08 PM »

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2011, 11:38:34 PM »
Now that is rather more than I feel like reading at the moment.

Plato decided that his Republic should be built on an island far away from any outside influence, so perhaps a sea platform would be a good idea for the same reason.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2011, 11:40:41 PM »

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2011, 12:38:02 AM »
There are a number of unpopulated desert islands in the Pacific that would be easier to deal with. The only disadvantage is that they are all officially claimed by some country, like Kiribari, Vanuatu, Nauru and so forth. Most lack water, but a platform would also lack water, and would cost a lot more to build.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Seasteading
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2011, 10:42:49 PM »

Power is Water.

One of my favoriate schemes is to harvest the thermocline.

It is very common in deep water to find a sharp decline in tempreture at depth, very often it forms a border that can look like a sea bottom.

Warmest of all of course are the uppermost inches which the sun warms.

If one lowers a heat exchanger , just a coil of pipes, below the thermocline it can condense a vapor to working fluid such as ammonia or  freon, the liquid can be pumped to a heat exchanger in the upper layers of water where it adsorbs heat , vaporises and turns a turbine like steam from a boiler would.

This process can be continuous at any scale , tho a scale that could cool the ocean isn't likely to happen.



http://books.google.com/books?id=JxTRlPGGjt0C&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=freon+turbine+energy+ocean&source=bl&ots=Eo7c2PGFr2&sig=pzmXlYh4zk0NtyUTfBRsbz9KHNI&hl=en&ei=p67mTtyBDYeUtweavdiICg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=freon%20turbine%20energy%20ocean&f=false