socialized medicine

[Christians4LessGvt]

In your postulation, anyone who is alive and breathing would be required to purchase health insurance.

no my postulation does not say that
it says means testing is a part of the answer to this complicated matter
16% of US population are without medical insurance
actually in a way means testing would also happen under a full fledged gvt run program anyway....via the tax system
there are millions and millions of americans that can afford health insurance but choose not to purchase it
then when they get sick they run to public healthcare facilities, it amounts to welfare to people that don't need it
anyone above a certain income level would be required to carry health insurance or be garnished into a gvt/private healthcare system
this would greatly reduce the "freeloader burden" on our healthcare system (not the whole answer, but one part)
there are many ways people can carry heath insurance without "purchasing it"
through employment based medical insurance(about 60% of americans), through tax subsidy, through medical savings accounts, ect

if you stop providing non-americans/illegals free routine medical care and stop providing medical care to those that can really afford it but choose to spend those dollars elsewhere it would leave a smaller pool of uninsured to deal with, it would shrink the "problem"
then you can deal with many of those that really can not afford medical insurance with tax breaks/medical savings accounts/ect

i don't pretend to have the whole answer, but in my opinion the last thing we need is the people that run our "out of control" borders, that run Walter Reed Hospital, that run our failing education system, that run the post office, that run congress, is to run our healthcare

[Michael Tee]

<<if you stop providing non-americans/illegals free routine medical care and stop providing medical care to those that can really afford it but choose to spend those dollars elsewhere it would leave a smaller pool of uninsured to deal with, it would shrink the "problem"
then you can deal with many of those that really can not afford medical insurance with tax breaks/medical savings accounts/ect>>

Sure, "non-Americans" aren't human anyway, who gives a shit if they get sick and die right next door.  Not our problem.
<< . . .  but in my opinion the last thing we need is the people that run our "out of control" borders, that run Walter Reed Hospital, that run our failing education system, that run the post office, that run congress, is to run our healthcare>>

You're right, I've got a better idea.  Let the same people who run Enron, WorldCom, Parmalat, Savings & Loan, BCCI, Barings Bank, Arthur Anderson, Global Crossing, Bre-X, Health South etc. etc. etc. run your health-care system.  Oooops! - - I forgot.  They already do.  THAT'S why you die earlier than we "socialized" Canadians.  Sorry 'bout that.

BTW, Professor, I got a good laugh out of your "take two aspirins" cartoon.  About two years ago, I was rushed to hospital with a heart attack, triaged in about thirty seconds, after which a line was put in my arm, my condition was stabilized, two stents were inserted in my coronary arteries and I was discharged from hospital and into a full year of rehab and physio,in a state-of-the-art gym with on-site stress tests as required, including unlimited consultations one-on-one with dieticians, endocrinologists (due to my Diabetes Type II) and trainers.  And the cost to me?  Zero.  Zip.  Nada.  Not one penny out of my pocket, Professor.  From the richest to the poorest, that service is available to any Canadian, even refugees.  And we're NOT the "richest country in the world."

Frankly, you people ought to be ashamed of yourselves.  Your public health care is a fucking disgrace.  And here you are, not only celebrating it, but bad-mouthing those who can do it better with cartoons that just repeat the endless lies of the health-care industries and their right-wing spear-carriers.   It's just mind-boggling how such ignorance can be a source of pride.  No wonder your country is becoming the laughingstock of the civilized world.

[The_Professor]

Perhaps, but then, you're the one apparently carrying on a conversation with yourself.

I don't think the Professor said he was ChristiansUnited4LessGovt. I believe he might have said he was of like mind.

Perhaps the Professor would like to clarify his statement.

     

Gosh, BT. I was just having a wee bit of fun! You're a party-pooper!

No, for the record, other than I believe ChristinaUnited4LessGovt is either Edwin Meese, William Bennet or Bert Lance, I am NOT ChristiansUnited4LessGovt, though I do tend to agree with much of what he/she says.

         

[Christians4LessGvt]

From the richest to the poorest, that service is available to any Canadian, even refugees.

thats obviously not what the Canadian Supreme Court said:

June 2005
The Canadian Supreme Court of Canada ruled Thursday that the Quebec government cannot prevent people from paying for private insurance for health-care procedures covered under medicare. In a 4-3 decision, the panel of seven justices said banning private insurance for a list of services ranging from MRI tests to cataract surgery was unconstitutional under the Quebec Charter of Rights, given that the public system has failed to guarantee patients access to those services in a timely way. As a result of delays in receiving tests and surgeries, patients have suffered and even died in some cases, justices Beverley McLachlin, Jack Major, Michel Bastarache and Marie Deschamps found for the majority.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/06/09/newscoc-health050609.html

[Christians4LessGvt]

I was rushed to hospital with a heart attack

i am sorry that happened and hope you are doing better
but there is data that suggests better outcomes with heart attacks with United States healthcare system than the canadian sytem.

Americans are more likely to live longer after a heart attack than their neighbors to the north, and a new study shows more aggressive care may be the reason. Researchers say heart attack patients in the U.S. are more likely to be treated aggressively with surgical procedures to repair clogged or damaged arteries, such as angioplasty or bypass surgery, than more conservative treatment with clot-busting drugs alone.The study shows that the conservative pattern of care in Canada might be having a negative effect on mortality rates from heart disease in that country.
http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20040920/us-tops-canada-in-post-heart-attack-care


In a previous substudy of the GUSTO-I trial, we observed better functional and quality-of-life outcomes among patients in the United States (US patients) compared with patients in Canada. Rates of invasive therapy were significantly higher in the United States
Our results suggest, for the first time, that the more conservative pattern of care with regard to early revascularization in Canada for ST-segment elevation acute myocardial infarction may have a detrimental effect on long-term survival. Our results have important policy implications for cardiac care in countries and healthcare systems wherein use of invasive procedures is similarly conservative
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/110/13/1754

[Michael Tee]

Wow.  Interesting study.  Thanks, Professor.  And it makes some interesting points about the Canadian hospitals far from the main population centres, which are not equipped for invasive treatment.

But the study seems to be based on patients who all made it into some kind of hospital or treatment facility for evaluation and treatment.  It's possible that the study had inadvertently screened out those U.S. citizens who, owing to lack of insurance, either never went to hospital or were turned away from hospitals with minimal to no treatment due to lack of insurance coverage.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Wow.  Interesting study.  Thanks, Professor.  And it makes some interesting points about the Canadian hospitals far from the main population centres, which are not equipped for invasive treatment.

=====================================
Of course medical facilities in Yellowknife are not going to be as good as those in Montreal. But the same thing can be said if you compare Nome with NYC.  Geography is simply more important than the style of the bureaucracy.

[Universe Prince]

I don't think the Professor said he was ChristiansUnited4LessGvt. I believe he might have said he was of like mind.

I thought so too, but then in Reply #2 of this thread the Professor said:

Hey, I came clean a few days ago that I am this newcomer, just in a different guise.

Which looked to me like he was claiming to be ChristiansUnited4LessGvt. The Professor has since said otherwise, so I guess it doesn't matter.

[The_Professor]

Gosh, a guy cannot even have any fun anymore!