Author Topic: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!  (Read 5227 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2008, 12:17:50 AM »
No, I don't. Possibly we might arrange a better trade arrangement, but no,
I don't see Mexico, Canada or the U.S. giving up their sovereignty any time soon


I hope you are right, but I do not agree.
Everything is moving towards "one world".
Trade agreements are bringing down borders.
The internet is tearing down border barriers.
World economics is tearing down borders.
Do we even have a southern border? LOL
There is lots of discussion/books/believers in the "end of the nation state".
Technology is accelerating the end of the nation state.
There are influential people that believe that something along the lines of the UN will eventually rule the world.
I don't think that is that far fetched.
I dont like it.
But I think it's probably inevitable.

ps: uh oh this thread is only to be about legal non-us citizens!
do we have fat mans permisssion to discuss?

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Universe Prince

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2008, 12:46:19 AM »

You think I care if UP cheerleads for you because he and I have tangled in the past and he hates me.


I absolutely do not hate you or anyone else here.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

fatman

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2008, 12:48:55 AM »
I'm done with you.  You can't provide an intelligent debate.  I guess that I was expecting too much.  My apologies.

Universe Prince

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2008, 12:51:56 AM »

Trade agreements are bringing down borders.
The internet is tearing down border barriers.
World economics is tearing down borders.


You say tear down. I say open. Significant difference between the two concepts.


ps: uh oh this thread is only to be about legal non-us citizens!
do we have fat mans permisssion to discuss?


'Tain't funny, McGee. Let it go.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2008, 12:56:01 AM »
When the economic situations in Mexico and Central America improve, the "flood" of immigrants from those countries will slow down. There is no reason to assume that capitalism that has helped this country cannot help other countries.

True.
Capitalism could be the savior.

Problem is I think most of the poor uneducated immigrants are going to become a voting base that will
one day crush/limit/hamper capitalism.


We need more of it, not less. I understand your concerns, but I honestly do not believe
we are going to avert such things by trying to stop people from making a better life for themselves.


We could become a Japan.


More open trade in labor and goods will benefit all of us. The more we try to control life, control people, control trade, the fewer benefits we will receive and the more problems we will cause. Quality of life is not protected by interfering with trade, just ask the Soviets. Ask the Venezuelans if their quality of life is being protected. I believe if we are going to stop the "flood" and the trends about which you seem concerned, we need to try what has worked for us, liberty and capitalism, not regulations and socialist style control.

I understand your points, but we don't agree.
They need to go through the struggle there in their own countries to bring about capitalism.
Not come here and lower our standards.
Do you not think there should be any limits to how many poor uneducated immigrants we take?
Would it be ok to add 30 million more? 75 million more, 100 million more?
Fly them in non-stop 24/7.
Double thriple the amount coming in now?
After all much of the world is dirt poor.
So hundreds of millions would like to come
Hell living in a tiny 1 bedroom apt and working at Walmart they would be Kings compared to
where they now sit.
I want limits. Do you?
Do you not support any limits on immigration to the United States?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 01:11:37 AM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2008, 12:57:09 AM »
'Tain't funny, McGee. Let it go.

UP you know it was!  ;)

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2008, 01:09:00 AM »
I'm done with you. 

Oh no you're not.
I still have another long ass thread of yours to respond to.
I am sure much of it is the same stuff I have already responded to.
I'll look tomorrow and see if there's anything worthy of my time.

You can't provide an intelligent debate. 

What?... like the name calling you started in this thread or
the F-bombs you drop then lecture me to "be more like Pooch"?
 ::)


footnote:

Oh and since we're "done" as you say:
i did want to tell you one thing, if you were sincerely
offended by me goofing on your name Fatman by calling you fats
or fatso I meant no harm, I figured your name was "tongue in cheek"
anyway. But I apologize if you really find those words hurtful because
you have a real weight problem or eating disorder.





 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 01:13:06 AM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Universe Prince

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2008, 01:14:50 AM »

Capitalism could be the savior.


No, capitalism will never be a savior. It's just a tool, but it doesn't work if we don't use it.


Problem is I think most of the poor uneducated immigrants are going to become a voting base that will
one day crush/limit/hamper capitalism.


One reason why we should have less regulated trade with other countries. Again, when the economic situations in their home countries improve, they will have less impetus to come here.


Do you not support any limits on immigration?


I'm not opposed to minor things like check points, kinda like Ellis Island used to be. Check for sick people, look for known criminals, et cetera. Most folks answered a few questions and were admitted. Legally. No waiting for years, no labyrinthine red tape. And they were here legally. And we're a better country for it, imo. Some modern updates would be okay, like checking fingerprints as a way of checking for known criminals and the like. That is about as far as limiting immigration should go, imo.

But of course, you should not separate this from the fact that I also want to see better trade between the U.S. and Mexico and other countries. Again, capitalism, when the government started pulling back the New Deal nonsense that hampered capitalism, pulled the U.S. out of economic depression about as bad as anything in Mexico these days. I believe capitalism can help Mexico do the same, but, as I said before, only if we use it. The thing is, Mexico would not benefit alone. We would too.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 03:41:30 AM by Universe Prince »
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2008, 01:20:38 AM »

But I apologize if you really find those words hurtful


If we'd all start with thinking about that, rather than ending there, we'd all be much better off. Myself included.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Stray Pooch

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2008, 05:20:42 AM »
Apostle of the Pooch?  Jiminy Crickets, I seem to have somehow become a cult!

Heck, it was bound to happen eventually.  Now if someone will just mix up a batch of Kool-Aid and tell my wives to come hither, we can all wait for the spaceship.

I have read the thread and I have only a few random observations.

1)  Immigrants to this country should file lawsuits.  It is so American it ought to be a prerequisite.

2)  Thanks, fatman, for posting that citizenship requirement information.  It was interesting, relevant and answered a lot of questions I have had but was too lazy to look up.

3)  If the previous point makes me a cheerleader, I want a nicer dress.  And an image consultant.

4)  Actually, I want that anyway.

The fact is, I think the lawsuits are justified if the government is not meeting the congressionally mandated deadline.  However, I also think that increasing the background requirement should have been coupled with a substantial increase in approval time - as inconvenient as that would be for the folks waiting.  The SBIs we conducted for American citizens needing security clearances could take months to years, and there were far fewer of those.  The ones that took longest to complete were those that involved people who had been out of country.  That pretty much includes 100 percent of the alien population (except their kids who were born here).  I think it is unrealistic to expect a six-month wait time to be sufficient under the post 9-11 rules.  But the law is the law, and for those who have faithfully applied and legally resided here, there is nothing more American than expecting the government to live up to its own rules.

In spite of that, however, I do not believe applications should be expedited just because an election is on the way.  There will be other elections.   The backlog should be cleaned up because it is the law, and for no other reason.  The law should probably be changed, but what politician on the majority side of the aisle is going to support legislation to make the waiting period LONGER?  Perhaps one idea, if it could be made to pass constitutional muster, would be interim citizenships that would confer rights upon an individual after the deadline had passed but which could be revoked if subsequent investigation proved the person ineligible.  Of course there is a chance of abuse there, but it might make increasing the wait time more palatable.  Let's say increase the time to a year, and after that you get a citizenship "learner's permit." 

Now, if you will excuse me, I'm off to write "the Tao of Pooch."

Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Amianthus

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2008, 08:09:12 AM »
Now, if you will excuse me, I'm off to write "the Tao of Pooch."

Do you have a Poochlet to write the Te?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Universe Prince

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Re: Lets hurry & let them all vote so we be more like Mexico sooner!
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2008, 01:03:55 PM »

Now, if you will excuse me, I'm off to write "the Tao of Pooch."


"I, Chew"?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--