Author Topic: Opting out of the Empire  (Read 2206 times)

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hnumpah

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2008, 11:41:53 PM »
Given your history of posting altered images, you expect us to believe that one is unaltered?
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 09:41:46 AM »
I am not going to get anything useful out of a fiction novel that advocates genocide, so excuse me while I leave this trash to you.

Obama can read whatever he pleases, as can you. I doubt that the book you allege he is carrying is in any way as unfactual as the piece of crap you seem to worship, with flames on the cover.

We have reached the point in history where the 1/2% that are the oligarchy that rules the 6% of the world population cannot expect to dominate the entire world. If this were possible, Juniorbush would not have to borrow from the Chinese and beggar the dollar to subdue Iraq. I don't think it was ever possible for the US to rule the world, but it certainly isn't possible now.

The Spanish tried to convert the planet for the Holy Mother Church. The British tried to make everyone admire Queen Victoria. Hitler told everyone that Germans were the Master Race, and failed to convince them, even with the help of Mussolini and Tojo. Now that they have given up on this nonsense, Spain and the UK are respected, and everyone likes Mercedes, Lexus and Vespas. But they were stupid and had to try to dominate with wars. Now the time has come to learn from the past experience of others' failures and give up the entire imperial idea.

 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2008, 09:56:57 AM »
About that book, "The Post-American World", by Fareed Zacharia:

rom Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. When a book proclaims that it is not about the decline of America but the rise of everyone else, readers might expect another diatribe about our dismal post-9/11 world. They are in for a pleasant surprise as Newsweek editor and popular pundit Zakaria (The Future of Freedom) delivers a stimulating, largely optimistic forecast of where the 21st century is heading. We are living in a peaceful era, he maintains; world violence peaked around 1990 and has plummeted to a record low. Burgeoning prosperity has spread to the developing world, raising standards of living in Brazil, India, China and Indonesia. Twenty years ago China discarded Soviet economics but not its politics, leading to a wildly effective, top-down, scorched-earth boom. Its political antithesis, India, also prospers while remaining a chaotic, inefficient democracy, as Indian elected officials are (generally) loathe to use the brutally efficient tactics that are the staple of Chinese governance. Paradoxically, India's greatest asset is its relative stability in the region; its officials take an unruly population for granted, while dissent produces paranoia in Chinese leaders. Zakaria predicts that despite its record of recent blunders at home and abroad, America will stay strong, buoyed by a stellar educational system and the influx of young immigrants, who give the U.S. a more youthful demographic than Europe and much of Asia whose workers support an increasing population of unproductive elderly. A lucid, thought-provoking appraisal of world affairs, this book will engage readers on both sides of the political spectrum. (May)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

From The Washington Post's Book World/washingtonpost.com

After the Iraq war, Fareed Zakaria argued in his Newsweek column that the world's new organizing principle was pro- or anti-Americanism. But as the Iraq muddle drags on and China rises, the larger story of the post-Cold War era has come into sharp relief: We are not the center of the universe. It matters less that particular countries are pro- or anti-American than that the world is increasingly non-American. We need to get over ourselves.

Zakaria's The Post-American World is about the "rise of the rest," a catchy phrase from one of the most widely cited writers on foreign affairs. His prism is correct: We should focus more on the "rest," even if America is still the premier superpower. But within this broad approach, Zakaria leaves policy-makers to figure out how to rank challenges and restore U.S. legitimacy.

Zakaria zooms in on Asia, especially India and China, which he uses as proxies for "the rest." The first third of the book sets out his thesis -- "For the first time ever, we are witnessing genuinely global growth" -- and the next third describes how China's economy has doubled every eight years and how India may have the world's third largest economy by 2040.

This year has brought a flood of books on Asia's rise, including Bill Emmott's Rivals and Kishore Mahbubani's The New Asian Hemisphere. For the most part, they embody the "world is flat" thesis -- lots of economic statistics, little geography. But geopolitics is about more than growth rates. It matters that China borders a dozen more countries than India does, isn't hemmed in by a vast ocean and the world's tallest mountains, has a loyal diaspora twice the size of India's and enjoys a head start in Asian and African marketplaces. Zakaria's chapters on China and India, though of equal length, should not connote equivalency, and all "the rest" cannot be happily lumped together. Does China's example tell us what has gone wrong in Venezuela and Pakistan, and could go wrong in Egypt and Indonesia?

Ironically, the final third of The Post-American World, which focuses on us rather than on "the rest," is the strongest. Zakaria argues that America's world-beating economic vibrancy co-exists with a dysfunctional political system. "A 'can-do' country is now saddled with a 'do-nothing' political process, designed for partisan battle rather than problem solving," he writes. That makes it hard to devise a grand strategy, and Zakaria offers just a few "simple guidelines" on the need to set priorities, build global rules and be flexible. But in this non-American world, it may be too late to restore U.S. leadership. "The rest" is moving on.


So sure, I am GLAD Obama is reading this in lieu of some asshole POS novel about the nuking of Muslim cities.
I doubt any of you "Christians 4 Less Government" have even heard of Zacharia, but he is one of the best writers and idea guys that writes for Newsweek.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2008, 01:04:43 AM »
not about the decline of America but the rise of everyone else, readers


Sounds good , perhaps the USA has performed its role as everyone eleses papa long enough , in the future we can look after ourselves as one nation amoung equal nations rather than spending ourselves to rescue and support all the rest.


But is this transition still going on? Is there still a need for thousands of Americans to be based in Europe? This need was severe at one time but is rapidly becomeing a redundancy.

Does the Middle East need American influence the way that Europe used to? Seems that they do , but their maturity will come .

The Far east includes China and India wich are both too big for us to rescue militarily from any troubble , but not to big for us to influence with our tremendous economy, it may be in the near future that both India and China have economys equal to ours , at that time we had best remove the bottle from the beard and start competeing with them as if they were adult business rivals rather than our own troubblesome teens .

All the world rising might be good news , especially if it releives us of some of our load, People mock Kipling nowadays , but will there ever be a brown mans burden|?

fatman

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2008, 09:04:37 AM »
Has the transition even started?

It doesn't appear that way to me, with proposed long term troop commitments in the Middle East.  Are we going to be cutting garrisons in other nations (Germany, Korea, etc)?  Because if we are, that's maintaining the status quo, not a transition.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2008, 09:12:02 AM »
All the world rising might be good news , especially if it releives us of some of our load, People mock Kipling nowadays , but will there ever be a brown mans burden|?

Make it happen.

Vote for Obama.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2008, 09:20:32 AM »
It doesn't appear that way to me, with proposed long term troop commitments in the Middle East.  Are we going to be cutting garrisons in other nations (Germany, Korea, etc)?  Because if we are, that's maintaining the status quo, not a transition.

=======================================
Stationing troops in Germany saves the Germans money, because they pay the US less to have US troops there than it would cost to maintain their own troops. The German people fear militarism, curiously. It also enables the US to have a larger army without having to hit the taxpayers for the bill, since the cost is paid by the Germans.

The troops in Korea are needed to provide a major force on the DMZ. The North Koreans are too close to Seoul for comfort. I suspect that the Koreans pay for this as do the Germans.

The troops in Iraq are there because the occupation of Iraq is neocolonialism. It keeps Big Oil and the Israelis happy.

The American people are largely OK with the forces in Korea and Germany, because they are not getting killed, and they have become accustomed to their being there.

Most Americans are unaware of many other military missions: Diego Garcia, Manta, Ecuador, Mariscal Estigarribia, Paraguay, and others.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2008, 11:06:59 AM »
<<Sounds good , perhaps the USA has performed its role as everyone eleses papa long enough , in the future we can look after ourselves as one nation amoung equal nations rather than spending ourselves to rescue and support all the rest.>>

LOL   I'm sure all the Vietnamese, Iraqis, Dominicans, Panamanians, Indonesians, Cubans, Iraqis, Iranians etc. will be greatly relieved when the day finally comes that they need no longer fear, uh, I mean look forward to, your "rescue" and "support."

Never heard such self-serving, delusional misrendering of the past.  You sure you didn't write for the old Pravda?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2008, 11:22:03 AM »
"the world is increasingly non-American. We need to get over ourselves"

God I hope NoBama makes this a central theme of his campaign!
Oh but wait a minute I forgot he can't say what he really believes.
Thats the way a "trojan horse" works.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Opting out of the Empire
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2008, 05:18:49 PM »
God I hope NoBama makes this a central theme of his campaign!
Oh but wait a minute I forgot he can't say what he really believes.
=====================================================
Is McCain advertising that he wants to start yet another war with Iran?

Or do you think he should take his foreign policy from some trashy fanatic novel and advocate nuking several Muslim cities?
Let's see, the holiest is Mecca, then Medina, but I'm afraid the third holiest city is Jerusalem. Let's just use a really small bomb there, and just make the Dome of the Rock glow in the dark.

I'm betting that would put his candidacy over the top...
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."