Author Topic: Seven Days In May  (Read 4932 times)

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Brassmask

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Seven Days In May
« on: November 30, 2006, 12:56:49 PM »
http://imdb.com/title/tt0058576/

Where has this movie been all my paranoid life?

Good gravy, I can't wait to read the book.

The whole movie is worth it to see President Lyman confront General Scott.  Here you've got the right vs the left in the simplest of terms.  These guys aren't talking about Scott's desire to run the country or protect America.  They're talking about Democracy around the world and the best way to help it along.  Lyman on the left advocating patience and process and leading by example within the system.  Scott on the right advocating enforcing it now with all the might of the American Military behind him ironically destroying the ideal that he thinks is so dear.

This film is so timely and prescient.  We are literally living through a reality of what Scott proposes in Seven Days In May.  And it clearly isn't working.

As an aside, this is one of Kennedy's favorite books.  He gave Frankenheimer and his crew wide open access to the White House in order to film it because he loved the book so much.  I want to know what Frankenheimer knows.  He does a movie about a coup detat in America and then one happens.  He does a movie about The Manchurian Candidate and the RFK gets killed later.  WTF? 

Of course, I'm the paranoid type and this parapolitics stuff appeals to me a lot.  When Lyman demands the Joint Chiefs of Staff resign, it reminded me of Kennedy's firing of Cabel, Bissell and Dulles.  Are imitating life?  Just a thought.

General James Mattoon Scott: And if you want to talk about your oath of office, I'm here to tell you face to face, President Lyman, that you violated that oath when you stripped this country of its muscles - when you deliberately played upon the fear and fatigue of the people and told them they could remove that fear by the stroke of a pen. And then when this nation rejected you, lost faith in you, and began militantly to oppose you, you violated that oath by not resigning from office and turning the country over to someone who could represent the people of the United States.

President Jordan Lyman: And that would be General James Mattoon Scott, would it? I don't know whether to laugh at that kind of megalomania, or simply cry.

General James Mattoon Scott: James Mattoon Scott, as you put it, hasn't the slightest interest in his own glorification. But he does have an abiding interest in the survival of this country.

President Jordan Lyman: Then, by God, run for office. You have such a fervent, passionate, evangelical faith in this country - why in the name of God don't you have any faith in the system of government you're so hell-bent to protect?


Great flick.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 12:59:46 PM by Brassmask »

Lanya

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2006, 06:34:16 PM »
Thanks, I'd forgotten all about this movie! 

I would suggest The Crucible too.  Have you read the play or seen the movie?  Really great.
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Brassmask

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2006, 06:44:28 PM »
Thanks, I'd forgotten all about this movie! 

I would suggest The Crucible too.  Have you read the play or seen the movie?  Really great.

Oh Lanya, I've actually produced and directed that play.  For some reason, it didn't get a huge audience in north Mississippi.  Guess when they heard it was witches, it scaret 'em.

Wonderful, wonderful play.

My wife and I will sometimes say lines from it.  When Benjamin is crying 'cause he fell down or something, I'll go, "Pity me, John, pity me."  That version with Daniel Day Lewis and the woman that played Pat Nixon and was in THE CONTENDER (a great film where the main character, a woman is also an atheist and she is President jeff Bridges choice to be the new Vice-president, IT ROCKS) is pretty awesome.

Joan Allen.  She's awesome.


Michael Tee

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2006, 08:23:08 PM »
Seven Days in May - - one of my all-time paranoid faves, along with The Manchurian Candidate, Dr. Strangelove and The Bedford Incident.  All of 'em in B&W.  Package 'em with The Parallax View, Cutter's Way and Three Days of the Condor and you've got a Paranoia Weekend to end all weekends.

I loved the sycophantic TV commentator selling Gen. Scott's brand of fascism, who doesn't realize the game is over till the general tells him to go to hell.  The dialogue was great.  Could you picture any of the Presidential speeches coming out of Bush's mouth?  ROTFLMFAO.

BTW, Brass, The Crucible was at the Shaw Festival in Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario this summer in a very powerful performance that you probably would have loved.  Really strong actors, which a play like that needs.

Lanya

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2006, 11:33:36 PM »
Brass---that play got a big audience in NM.  There were some people there, I think, who had been under suspicion by  Joe McCarthy.
Wonderful play.

Michael,  I think I need to rent all those movies you mentioned. I love the Manchurian Candidate (the original). 
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Amianthus

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2006, 12:01:00 AM »
There were some people there, I think, who had been under suspicion by  Joe McCarthy.

In New Mexico? For what?
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Michael Tee

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2006, 01:48:01 AM »
<<Michael,  I think I need to rent all those movies you mentioned. >>

Lanya, you might also want to check out The Spy Who Came In From the Cold, with Richard Burton.  Also B&W and very much in the same style as the other B&W's I mentioned, with a different but related theme.

 <<I love the Manchurian Candidate (the original). >>

I know whatcha mean.  The remake wasn't bad either, but it shouldn't have had the same name.  Nowhere near the classic stature of the original.  Not even close.



Lanya

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2006, 07:44:45 PM »
There were some people there, I think, who had been under suspicion by  Joe McCarthy.

In New Mexico? For what?
Being writers or actors I think, from California. I only heard about this as a kid so I'm not sure who they were. 
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Amianthus

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2006, 09:01:55 PM »
Being writers or actors I think, from California. I only heard about this as a kid so I'm not sure who they were. 

McCarthy investigated military officers on the east coast.

Senator Joe McCarthy would not have been involved with the House Unamerican Activities Committee.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

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Amianthus

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 07:27:36 AM »
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:O2UBQIvdXioJ:student.ccbcmd.edu/~wbarry/saltoftheearth.doc+Victims+of+McCarthy%27s+blacklist+in+New+Mexico&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=17&client=firefox-a

Did you read it? Only mention of McCarthy doing anything was:

"1951-- Sen. Joseph McCarthy, assisted by Richard Nixon and Robert F. Kennedy, announces hearings to clear out all the Communists from government agencies, giving the period its most visible and famous symbol" (emphasis mine).

Of course, I guess you skipped over the part that said "1938- The House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), chaired by Congressman Martin Dies, is founded to 'investigate un-American activities' of both the left and the right. In one four-day period, 248 CIO organizers are named as Communists."

Incidently, Joseph McCarthy wasn't elected until 1946. Many that McCarthy accused of being spies for the Soviets were found later to have actually been spying for the Soviets. Dies, on the other hand, was conducting a witch hunt.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 07:37:15 AM by Amianthus »
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

_JS

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2006, 02:34:25 PM »
Quote
Many that McCarthy accused of being spies for the Soviets were found later to have actually been spying for the Soviets.

That is a complete falsehood. The vast majority of those "listed" by McCarthy from his major speeches where he used lists (usually adapted lists from various sources) there were very, very few that were confirmed spies for the Soviet Union. There were many who were leftists and some who were Communist Party members or who had been members or sympathizers with the Communist Party USA. But by no means is your statement even close to reality that many were actual spies for the Soviet Union.

Of note on McCarthy's lists were Drew Pearson, Dean Acheson, and George Marshall.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Amianthus

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2006, 03:29:47 PM »
Of note on McCarthy's lists were Drew Pearson, Dean Acheson, and George Marshall.

The first two were suspected by the House Un-American Activities Committee, and the final was never investigated by the Senate, AFAIK. McCarthy did write a book about Marshall, in which he basically said he didn't like the guy, but I don't think he ever investigated him. Again, I point out that Senator Joseph McCarthy was not involved with the House committee. Being a Senator, he wouldn't be involved in any committees in the House. And Senator McCarthy refused to "publish lists." Again, you're confusing the activities of Congressman Dies with Senator McCarthy.

That is a complete falsehood. The vast majority of those "listed" by McCarthy from his major speeches where he used lists (usually adapted lists from various sources) there were very, very few that were confirmed spies for the Soviet Union. There were many who were leftists and some who were Communist Party members or who had been members or sympathizers with the Communist Party USA. But by no means is your statement even close to reality that many were actual spies for the Soviet Union.

As I pointed out already, McCarthy only investigated the military and government agencies. He claimed ~200 people as spies, and later narrowed his list to 57. His "list" only contained case numbers, not actual names - the case numbers were supplied by the State Dept, which held the actual names and didn't release them to McCarthy. Some of those who were apprently correctly identified (based mostly on Verona files) are:

  • Solomon Adler
  • Cedric Belfrage
  • T.A. Bisson
  • Lauchlin Currie
  • Gustavo Duran
  • Theodore Geiger
  • Haldore Hanson
  • Mary Jane Keeney
  • Owen Lattimore
  • Leonard Mins
  • Annie Lee Moss
  • Franz Leopold Neumann
  • Edward Posniak
  • William Remington
  • John Carter Vincent
« Last Edit: December 05, 2006, 03:33:51 PM by Amianthus »
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

_JS

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2006, 03:57:46 PM »
No, I'm not confusing HUAC with Senator McCarthy. He did not have "lists" as in written explicitly on paper, but he did very much have them and made speeches as well as used the Lee list, the Tyding's Subcommittee list, and added his own "investigations" to his growing list.

And yes, Acheson, Pearson, and Marshall appeared on them. The Tyding's Subcommittee is the one you're thinking of that used only numbers.

For the very small minority that were identified on Venona, there were hundreds that were not. Moreover, there were some that were identified but were done so through complete coincidence, or had already changed views by the time McCarthy came to prominence (one example was Stephen Brunauer who was a communist, but later helped the United States by getting top scientists out of communist Hungary).

Of roughly 159 persons, there were 9 listed by Venona - most of whom were already being investigated by the FBI years before McCarthy yelled around in the Senate: Lauchlin Currie, Harold Glasser, Gerald Graze, Standley Graze, Many Jane Keeney, David Karr, Robert T. Miller, Franz Neumann, and William Remington.

Despite William F Buckley's and the John Birch Society's revisionism, McCarthy wasn't some shining example of shattering espionage. He was batting 5.6% and that was only because he was already using data provided by other subcommittees. He stood on the shoulders of weak data and made it weaker. Why the extreme right idolises that is really beyond me.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Amianthus

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Re: Seven Days In May
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2006, 05:47:12 PM »
And yes, Acheson, Pearson, and Marshall appeared on them. The Tyding's Subcommittee is the one you're thinking of that used only numbers.

I looked up more info on Drew Pearson (picked one at random).

His wife was identified as a Communist during testimony before the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee. In 1951.

McCarthy wasn't put on that committee until 1953.

As BT would say: "Timelines."
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)