Author Topic: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled  (Read 4472 times)

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Plane

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2011, 10:48:08 PM »
The US is going to do a lot of the heavy lifting , because we are the most able , but letting the French take point? Why not?

Kramer

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2011, 11:33:12 PM »
The US is going to do a lot of the heavy lifting , because we are the most able , but letting the French take point? Why not?

sure, I'm ok with that. just wish it had come about 3 weeks ago.

Plane

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2011, 05:04:12 AM »
The US is going to do a lot of the heavy lifting , because we are the most able , but letting the French take point? Why not?

sure, I'm ok with that. just wish it had come about 3 weeks ago.

An earlyer no fly zone might have preserved a few hundred of the casualtys on the rebel side, that is regrettable and those are exactly the people we would have wanted to deal with later.

On the other hand waiting untill it is alm ost too late makes it clear that the assistance is really needed and that the US is not eager to make this war, I don't think there is a limit on how much we can help, except we do not really want ownership.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2011, 10:42:56 AM »
The President simply has decided to do this the right way, with support of other countries, than just to barge in alone.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2011, 11:50:06 AM »
The President simply has decided to do this the right way, with support
of other countries, than just to barge in alone.

"Alone"?....ha!....more historical fiction!

Afghanistan: Operation Enduring Freedom
Countries Involved:
NATO, The United States, United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, Canada, Turkey,
Australia,  Spain, Denmark, Poland, 37 other countries

Operation Iraqi Freedom
Countries Involved:
The Unites States, the United Kingdom, Australia and Poland invaded and an
additional 30 countries provided some number of troops to support military
operations after the invasion was complete.


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Kramer

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2011, 12:15:31 PM »
The President simply has decided to do this the right way, with support
of other countries, than just to barge in alone.

"Alone"?....ha!....more historical fiction!

Afghanistan: Operation Enduring Freedom
Countries Involved:
NATO, The United States, United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, Canada, Turkey,
Australia,  Spain, Denmark, Poland, 37 other countries

Operation Iraqi Freedom
Countries Involved:
The Unites States, the United Kingdom, Australia and Poland invaded and an
additional 30 countries provided some number of troops to support military
operations after the invasion was complete.

Don't forget Vietnam had a coalition too. And the French were there before the US. And Kosovo...

Nothing like a selective memory...

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2011, 02:44:34 PM »
Note that it was not possible for Juniorbush to get the UN or NATO to support the second Iraqi invasion, and the support given by Poland and some other countries was tiny and inconsequential.

There is no reason for any rational person to be confused about what President Obama did: he arranged for a coalition and support of the Arab League, and that took some time to accomplish. It will probably turn out to be the best choice for him to have made.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2011, 04:15:21 PM »
Boy you just have to love hypocrisy on such grand display
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Kramer

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2011, 10:46:13 PM »
Note that it was not possible for Juniorbush to get the UN or NATO to support the second Iraqi invasion, and the support given by Poland and some other countries was tiny and inconsequential.

There is no reason for any rational person to be confused about what President Obama did: he arranged for a coalition and support of the Arab League, and that took some time to accomplish. It will probably turn out to be the best choice for him to have made.

Fact: Bush Had 2 Times More Coalition Partners in Iraq Than Obama Has in Libya

Coalition Forces / Iraq vs. Libya

Coalition Countries - Iraq - 2003

Afghanistan,
Albania
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Czech Republic
Denmark
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Georgia
Hungary
Italy
Japan
South Korea
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Philippines
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Spain
Turkey
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan

[Source: US State Department]

Coalition - Libya - 2011

United States
France
United Kingdom
Italy
Canada
Belgium
Denmark
Norway
Qatar
Spain
Greece
Germany
Poland
Jordan
Morocco
United Arab Emirate

Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/barack-obama/2011/03/21/fact-bush-had-2-times-more-coalition-partners-iraq-obama-has-libya#ixzz1HHxt7fQY

Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/barack-obama/2011/03/21/fact-bush-had-2-times-more-coalition-partners-iraq-obama-has-libya#ixzz1HHxjznCZ


http://nation.foxnews.com/barack-obama/2011/03/21/fact-bush-had-2-times-more-coalition-partners-iraq-obama-has-libya


sirs

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2011, 04:31:33 PM »
Speaking of hypocritic

In the Democratic primary campaign of 2008, candidate Barack Obama scored points because he, unlike many Democrats, had opposed the Iraq War from the start. Though a state senator at the time of the 2002 congressional vote authorizing military action, Obama had delivered a speech to an anti-war rally in Chicago.

He said, "I don't oppose all wars ... What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne."

Regarding the justifications for war with Iraq, state Sen. Obama was unpersuaded: "I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted U.N. inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity ... But ... Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors ..."

As American forces join the war against Moammar Gadhafi, the nation is entitled to an explanation. How is the case for war against Gadhafi smarter (remember, Obama is only against "dumb" wars) or less "ideological" or more prudent than that for war against Saddam Hussein?

Certainly, with an army of only 50,000, Gadhafi represents far less of a threat to his neighbors or to us than did Saddam, who commanded an army estimated at 350,000.
As for humanitarian concerns, what Gadhafi is doing to the rebels in Libya is exactly what Saddam did to his domestic enemies, but on a reduced scale.
As Obama himself said, Saddam was "a ruthless man ... who butchers his own people to secure his power." Yet that didn't justify a war, state Sen. Obama told us.

Sen. Obama did not believe that Saddam posed a danger to the United States or to his neighbors -- though he had attacked or invaded three of his neighbors: Iran, Kuwait, and Israel. Yet Gadhafi has hardly ranged beyond his own borders.

While Obama (like the rest of the world) was convinced that Saddam had "developed chemical and biological weapons" -- and though he knew that Saddam had actually attacked his own people from the air with chemical weapons -- he didn't think that his possession of those weapons warranted war. In Gadhafi's case, there is no threat of WMD, as the dictator flamboyantly relinquished his WMD program after seeing Saddam's fate.

How are Obama's motives regarding military action against Moammar Gadhafi less "cynical" than those he was so contemptuous of in Wolfowitz and Perle? What "ideological agenda" was the Bush administration "shoving down our throats" that Obama is not himself duplicating? Is he opposed to the freedom agenda? What, exactly, was so obnoxious about the Bush program?

How has Obama concluded that a war against another Middle East villain is now justified and not "dumb" or "rash"? And on what principle can President Obama now decline to intervene on behalf of other freedom fighters around the globe?

We don't know, because unlike George Bush, who took his case for war to the American people through a vote in the United States Congress (with 110 Democrats voting in favor), President Obama has acted unilaterally -- putting our forces into harm's way based solely on his power as commander in chief. (Code Pink -- call your office!) If he is relying upon the vote in the United Nations as his mandate for military action, he is establishing a new principle of diminished U.S. sovereignty. American forces can now be ordered into action by the president and the U.N. but without the U.S. Congress?

On most of the foreign and security policy issues he preened himself about -- the folly of deposing despots, closing the prison at Guantanamo, using military tribunals to try terrorists, and withdrawing from Iraq, President Obama has reversed himself.

He has performed these reversals without explanation and without apology for his shrill condemnation of his predecessor. He condemned Bush's "ideology," but his own foreign policy seems to have amounted to marketing the image of himself as the first African-American president and the first Muslim-sympathetic president.

Image-making is easier than policymaking -- and when it came time for decisions, President Obama dissolved into incoherence.

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2011, 12:49:14 AM »
sirs talking about dissolving into incoherence, indeed.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2011, 02:55:37 AM »
Ahhh, so you appreciated the connection you share with our President.  Cool
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2011, 11:34:59 AM »
More incoherence.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2011, 11:44:37 AM »
And yet even more of a connection.  Impressive
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama's stance on intervention in Libya has People Puzzled
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2011, 11:48:35 AM »
No connection, just incoherence as far as the eye can see, the ear can hear and the bud can taste,
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."