Author Topic: No Hell  (Read 3124 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2011, 12:05:59 PM »
Hmm.

I guess you would have to be right about that.

Still, we can come close enough for nearly every purpose we have by giving a close approximation of pi.

A thought: in Perfect Universe created by a Perfect Deity, could there be a rational value for such things as pi?

I am thinking that at the very least, we would have the same number of days in every month and days in every year. It would only require moving the Earth a bit in its orbit and a small shift in the Moon.

But would we always be doomed to have an irrational pi?

If pi were a rational number, then that would mean the regular numbers would all be irrational. Perhaps we would jusat have to do without circles and spheres.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2011, 12:09:36 PM »
1 Kings 7:23 - And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

The difference has been explained thusly:

10 cubits is the exterior dimension (outside the brim to outside the brim) while the circumference was measured around the inside. The computed difference is the thickness of the container. Another passage mentions that this thickness is a "handbreadth". Using a circumference of exactly 30 cubits, the (inside) diameter would be just shy of 9.6 cubits. 0.4 cubits (the difference) is about 8 inches. Half this difference (which would be the thickness) is about 4 inches. Or about the breadth of a hand.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

hnumpah

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2011, 09:48:39 AM »
1 Kings 7:23 - And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

That, to me, does not mean it was an interior measurement. Fail.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2011, 11:33:08 AM »
This indicates the difference between scholarship and Biblical scholarship.

Scholarship takes the facts and identifies what they logically mean.

Biblical scholarship takes the Bible, assumes that because it is the Bible it MUST be true, and endeavors to bend the facts, twist the translation of any possible word, and after many paragraphs quoting this and that other part of the Bible, comes to the conclusion that the Bible REALLY means this, it was really true all along, and all that was needed was a little (meaning a humongeous amount) of Biblical "scholarship" to come to the conclusion that while the Bible SAYS that pi seems to be 3.0, it really is 3.14159... after all. God's in his Heaven, and all is once more right with the world and how could we ever have doubted?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2011, 12:13:27 PM »
That, to me, does not mean it was an interior measurement. Fail.

To me, that was a translation, and not literal, either. The original does not imply an outside measurement, it implies the measurement of the "sea" inside, which would be an inside measurement. This is reflected in other translations.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

hnumpah

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2011, 07:31:34 PM »
Totally unconvinced.

My last word on the subject:

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2011, 02:59:29 PM »
If one Pi has two legs, shouldn't an octopi have 16?

Could that be only a quadropi you have exhibited?
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Plane

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2011, 10:13:46 PM »
Weasel as you will, Plane, your previous statement:
   I consider the Catholic Church to be mistaken on other subjects also, I note no where in the Bible itself any Pathagoriean or Elucidian errors, let alone any Arestotlean errors.


is still incorrect. Stating an absolute value of pi as 3 is an error.


Not really.

Phi is 3, at a level of precision possible to whole numbers.
At one order more precision Phi is 3.1
At one hundred times the precision of whole numbers Phi is 3.14

But if you will please state for me a real absolute value for Phi from which no further precision can be demanded you will have won this arguement.

If not you may quibble forever as I claim this win.

Plane

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2011, 10:18:24 PM »
It is irrational when expressed as a decimal, but not as a ratio.

The definition of an "irrational number" is a number that cannot be expressed as a simple ratio (a/b where a and b are integers and b is non-zero). Any circle that has an integer diameter has a non-integer circumference hence it cannot be written as a ratio.


Hmmmm....

it is certainly possible to compute phi past all need of precision , but how diffrent is the most precise possible computation from a rounded off phi?

No matter how nicely computed the error will never exceed 4%.

Plane

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2011, 07:43:19 PM »
Weasel as you will, Plane, your previous statement:
   I consider the Catholic Church to be mistaken on other subjects also, I note no where in the Bible itself any Pathagoriean or Elucidian errors, let alone any Arestotlean errors.


is still incorrect. Stating an absolute value of pi as 3 is an error.

What is the exact value of Phi?

In what scripture does the Bible state that the exact value of Phi is 3?


(oops) already went there

Belay my last.

Plane

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2011, 08:03:12 PM »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2011, 10:20:02 PM »
Pi and phi are different Greek letters. We have been discussing pi, which expresses the ratio between the circumference and the diameter of a circle. If the diameter is 1.00, then the circumference is pi (3.14159...)

phi is a different letter and stands for different values in several fields:

The lower-case letter \varphi \, (or often its variant, \phi \,) is often used to represent the following:

    * The golden ratio \tfrac{1 + \sqrt{5}}{2} \approx 1.61803\ldots in mathematics, art, and architecture.
    * Euler's totient function ?(n) in number theory; also called Euler's phi function.
    * In algebra, group or ring homomorphisms
    * In probability theory, ?(x) = (2?)?½e?x2/2 is the probability density function of the normal distribution.
    * In probability theory, ?X(t) = E[?eitX?] is the characteristic function of a random variable X.
    * An angle, typically the second angle mentioned, after ? (theta). Especially:
          o The argument of a complex number.
          o The phase of a wave in signal processing.
          o In spherical coordinates, mathematicians usually refer to phi as the polar angle (from the z-axis). The convention in physics is to use phi as the azimuthal angle (from the x-axis).
          o One of the dihedral angles in the backbones of proteins.
          o Internal or effective angle of friction.
    * Electric potential in physics.
    * The work function in electronics.
    * A shorthand representation for an aromatic functional group in organic chemistry.
    * The fugacity coefficient in thermodynamics.
    * The ratio of free energy destabilizations of protein mutants in phi value analysis.
    * In cartography and navigation, latitude.
    * In combustion engineering, equivalence ratio. The ratio between the actual fuel air ratio to the stoichiometric fuel air ratio.
    * A sentence in first-order logic.
    * Porosity in geology and hydrology.
    * Strength (or resistance) reduction factor in structural engineering, used to account for statistical variabilities in materials and construction methods.
    * The symbol for a voiceless bilabial fricative in the International Phonetic Alphabet (using the straight line variant character)
    * In economics, this is usually an additive term.[clarification needed]
    * In flight dynamics, the roll angle.

The upper-case letter ? is used as a symbol for:

    * The golden ratio conjugate ?0.618... in mathematics.
    * The magnetic flux and electric flux in physics, with subscripts distinguishing the two.
    * The cumulative distribution function of the normal distribution in mathematics and statistics.
    * Philosophy.[why?]
    * The number of phases in a power system in electrical engineering, for example 1? for single phase, 3? for three phase.
    * A common symbol for the parametrization of a surface in vector calculus.
    * In Lacanian algebra, ? stands for the imaginary phallus and also represents phallic signification. -? stands in for castration

I am not familiar Lacanian algebra, but it sounds rather intriguing.
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Plane

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2011, 02:32:22 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Lacan
http://www.lacan.com/symptom8_articles/miller8.html

It sounded a lot more intregueing than I found it to be, very dry and I didn't get far.

Plane

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Re: No Hell
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2011, 02:34:10 AM »
Pardon the Pi I should have known it wasn't phi.