Author Topic: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post  (Read 2513 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« on: January 16, 2007, 03:17:41 PM »


washingtonpost.com: 

Study Claims Iraq's 'Excess' Death Toll Has Reached 655,000

By David Brown
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 11, 2006; Page A12

A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred.

The estimate, produced by interviewing residents during a random sampling of households throughout the country, is far higher than ones produced by other groups, including Iraq's government.
   

A man mourns his son Friday in Baqubah, a city north of Baghdad. The child died in random gunfire near a family home in the village of Khan Bani Saad.
A man mourns his son Friday in Baqubah, a city north of Baghdad. The child died in random gunfire near a family home in the village of Khan Bani Saad. (By Mohammed Adnan -- Associated Press)
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It is more than 20 times the estimate of 30,000 civilian deaths that President Bush gave in a speech in December. It is more than 10 times the estimate of roughly 50,000 civilian deaths made by the British-based Iraq Body Count research group.

The surveyors said they found a steady increase in mortality since the invasion, with a steeper rise in the last year that appears to reflect a worsening of violence as reported by the U.S. military, the news media and civilian groups. In the year ending in June, the team calculated Iraq's mortality rate to be roughly four times what it was the year before the war.

Of the total 655,000 estimated "excess deaths," 601,000 resulted from violence and the rest from disease and other causes, according to the study. This is about 500 unexpected violent deaths per day throughout the country.

The survey was done by Iraqi physicians and overseen by epidemiologists at Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health. The findings are being published online today by the British medical journal the Lancet.

The same group in 2004 published an estimate of roughly 100,000 deaths in the first 18 months after the invasion. That figure was much higher than expected, and was controversial. The new study estimates that about 500,000 more Iraqis, both civilian and military, have died since then -- a finding likely to be equally controversial.

Both this and the earlier study are the only ones to estimate mortality in Iraq using scientific methods. The technique, called "cluster sampling," is used to estimate mortality in famines and after natural disasters.

While acknowledging that the estimate is large, the researchers believe it is sound for numerous reasons. The recent survey got the same estimate for immediate post-invasion deaths as the early survey, which gives the researchers confidence in the methods. The great majority of deaths were also substantiated by death certificates.

"We're very confident with the results," said Gilbert Burnham, a Johns Hopkins physician and epidemiologist.

A Defense Department spokesman did not comment directly on the estimate.

"The Department of Defense always regrets the loss of any innocent life in Iraq or anywhere else," said Lt. Col. Mark Ballesteros. "The coalition takes enormous precautions to prevent civilian deaths and injuries."
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2007, 03:47:10 PM »
The survey was done by Iraqi physicians and overseen by epidemiologists at Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health. The findings are being published online today by the British medical journal the Lancet.



I'm sure the WP regurgitating the Lancet report adds credibility to it.

No one else has estimates anywhere near that.

Some one is wrong. My guess is it is the LAncet since they are so far off the curve.

Those numbers are NOT gospel and should not be bandied about like they are.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2007, 04:05:30 PM »
Well, see, it does no good to give you a source.

There is no pleasing you. If you do not believe the Washington Post, then go believe Matt Drudge or Rush or whomever floats your canoe.

I am not googling any more for you. Believe what you will. You being well or poorly informed is of no real value or lack of same to me.

I am resisting the temptation to add "liar liar, pants on fire!"
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2007, 04:13:40 PM »
Quote
If you do not believe the Washington Post

Perhaps you didn't read your own thorough documentation.

All the WP did was regurgitate the Lancet report.

How does that add credence to the Lancet report?

All the WP did was repeat quesionable data.





Xavier_Onassis

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2007, 04:18:36 PM »
You are the one that said it was "questionable".

 Do you think the Lancet might have some ulterior motive to misinform you?
They did indicate that many of the dead are not battlefield casualties, but have died because of illnesses and stray bullets.


So question it, already.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2007, 04:24:07 PM »
What the Lancet needs is a couple of lessor publications to make larger guesses, in order to put the Lancet more  convinceinly onto the curve.

BT

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2007, 04:27:29 PM »
Quote
Do you think the Lancet might have some ulterior motive to misinform you?

Considering the two times they published their figures was right before the election in 2004 and 2006, yeah i questin th etiming and their motivations.

But if you are comfortable being played like a fool, who am i to blow against the wind.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2007, 04:32:57 PM »
I did not say that I agreed or disagreed with what the Lancet said. Who knows what sort of devious intentions a British Medical Journal might have on American elections.

I wonder of the New England Journal of Medicine thinks of the Tories?

My thought is that (regardless of the actual numbers) too many Iraqis have died as a result of this bogusly mongered war. I suppose you think it is exactly the proper number, or perhaps too few.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2007, 04:39:54 PM »
I don't think 655k causalties in Iraq should be bandied about as gospel.

I think it so far out of the curve that it is a questionable figure.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2007, 04:46:29 PM »
I was unaware that I was bandying anything.

I am not prone to proselitizing.

Perhaps it is the upper limit of the number of casualties.

Perhaps a figure to aspire to in coming months or years?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: 655,000 dead Iraqis, says Washington Post
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2007, 06:55:21 PM »
Quote
I was unaware that I was bandying anything.

Perhaps not directly. You seemed to be defending Mikey's blatant bandying. And by extension the validity of the figures themselves.

Perhaps  i misunderstood your intent.