The measure of a decent human being is how he or she treats the defenseless

[sirs]

1) I didn't tell you where you can post, only that IF you wish to continue THIS discussion of FAITH, there's a more appropriate room in the saloon to post

2) I DID answer it.  You just don't like the answer.  If you wish more detail or satisfaction to the answer provided, see 1)

[Xavier_Onassis]

2 if you can't answer a simple question, say so. Which of course will speak volumes. Because you certainly did not answer why your faith based position is correct and xo's faith based position is not.

=================================================
I beg your pardon?

I do not have a "faith based" position. I simply said that the Bible is not the word of God,and explained why it is entirely logical to say this. I am an agnostic. I do not claim to know what the ultimate truth is, I only go as far as logic will take me by stating what is illogical and therefore as untrue as other beliefs that people mention, such as the belief that the Earth is 6000 years old: I cannot prove that the Earth did not exist before that time, but there seems to be overwhelming evidence that this must logically be true.

Nearly all assumptions involve faith to some degree.

I think I can say that I have FAITH to the degree that I can say that I have FAITH that most Hydrogen atoms consist of one proton or one electron. There is rather a lot of logical proof to have this faith, even though it is likely that no one will ever see an electron spinning around a proton, since even smaller particles would have to exist to see them.

A scientist has FAITH that certain chemical reactions will occur and others will not. A cook has FAITH that a steak will be properly cooked after 5 minutes per side at a specific setting on the burner.

I would write about this in the other forum, except no one would see what I have written there. This is the only active part of 3DHS.

[BT]

1) I didn't tell you where you can post, only that IF you wish to continue THIS discussion of FAITH, there's a more appropriate room in the saloon to post,

Your suggestion is ignored.

2) I DID answer it.  You just don't like the answer.  If you wish more detail or satisfaction to the answer provided, see 1)

Actually you did not explain how your faith based position was right and xo's faith based position was wrong.

You dodged it, deflected it, ran away from it , and your lack of a reply speaks volumes.

[BT]

Do you have faith in your ability to reason, to apply logic to a question?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Speaking volumes again,are we?

Getting back to the topic, which was a woman's right to choose or reject an abortion:

If God were to appear and personally state His opinion on abortion, then I imagine that we could follow His will on the subject. This seems to come down to the precise moment in which a zygote becomes a human being. Most believe that this has to do with whether it has a soul or not. We can eat chicken eggs as well as chickens based on the belief that chickens and the eggs have no souls, whereas we do have souls. I have no proof that chickens or humans have souls, by the way. I enjoyed TWO "Chicken Littles" from the KFC last night, so I guess I am more comfortable with the premise of chickens not having souls. I hate to think that $2.58 plus 18¢ tax is all that a chicken's being exterminated is worth.

What I said was that until we know God's rules for creation, we cannot be sure that  a fetus becomes a living human being with a soul. God, we assume, knows this and could tell us.

Until then, it seems entirely logical to me to leave the fate of all fetuses up to the woman carrying said fetus. It certainly is more important to her than it is to sirs, or me, or the state or federal government. I am neither for or against abortions in any specific case,and am entirely content to leave it with the pregnant woman, since she has more to benefit or suffer depending on her life.

Perhaps animals all have souls, as the Jains believe.

The Western tradition is that we leave killing the chickens up to the Colonel so we can enjoy the Chicken Littles.
I see this as quite similar to leaving the abortion decision up to the pregnant woman. I am not guilty of her having or not having an abortion since I have logically no part in the process.

Perhaps she will join the Colonel in Hades, perhaps not. Maybe I will have to suffer in the afterlife because of all the livestock that have died as a result of me not wanting to live on salad and veggies.

Will St.Peter tell me that I am being sent downstairs because I have been directly instrumental in the massacre of 5000 chickens and a lot of fish, cattle, pigs and even that rattlesnake I ate in Tlaxcala? Who knows?
 

[Plane]

So , rejecting the idea that God has already left guidence where you can find it.
You are willing to assume that the human being before birth has no soul.
You make the same assumption of adult Chickens and their eggs.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I assume nothing about the souls of humans or chickens.

The existence is a soul has never been proven nor disproved. We find it convenient to assume that chickens have no souls, primarily because that chickens, when fried, are delicious. Naturally, we do not wish to feel guilt about eating chickens or other animals. Pigs are especially smart, but no matter, bacon is especially delicious.

It would seem that there is as much reason to assume that some animals have souls. We share something like 97% of our DNA with chimpanzees, after all.

What we do know is that if the soul does exist after death, wherever it goes, it does not come back and tell us about it. Jesus came back, we hear, but he really did not say much about life in Heaven. We seem to have gotten the idea that there will be a lot of singing in the Choir Celestial, and also that this singing and listening to others sing, will be particularly pleasant. Having sung in choirs, I have noticed that even the best singing gig gets pretty tedious after an hour or so, even if you do not have to pee.

God's guidance, if there is any, is to be found,not in the Bible or Koran, but in our DNA and our manner of thinking, or so it seems to me.

[Plane]

 I hope I am not delicious.

Do you think there is any reason for the law to protect anyone from murder?

Or only those who are prepared to prove themselves soulfull and/or not delicious.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Again, my position is crystal clear. I am not for abortion or against abortion. I am for the pregnant woman deciding on her own, with the advice of her doctor.

All the rest is speculation about how you righties want to meddle around with some strange woman's womb and rights.

[sirs]

Again, my position is crystal clear. I am not for abortion or against abortion.

Actually, this issue is all about abortion.  It's not abut choice, its not about life, it's about abortion.  You're either pro-abortion or anti-abortion.  That's what's crystal clear

[Xavier_Onassis]

No one is for compulsory abortion.

It is about the RIGHT of a woman to make decisions about her own life for herself.

[sirs]

It's about abortion.  I'm on record as being anti-abortion.  I think we all know where you stand

[Xavier_Onassis]

It is too bad you will not wake up pregnant tomorrow.

Really.

[sirs]

Yea, it is. 

Really

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

There is probably no other way to knock some sense into you.

Morning sickness, cramps, it would surely do you some good.