Lets talk about education

[kimba1]

Ever notice the countries that have free education are not what we think of as lands of scholars. Thier barely notable for thier education. If anything the asian countries are more notable due to the type of education being used. Which is strange since india and to a smaller degree china is based on old british rducation standards.

Im bringing this up to question the is free education a good idea. I personally don't want it to be free. I want it to be affordable. I do want public guidance counselor to steer people where to learn and get jobs. Unemployment offices seems to not do this very well . I very much question the push for STEM education. Not that it's not a great field but that the education will be incomplete.

True STEM teaches also none math ans science subject to create thinking. But i have doubts

[Plane]

Ever notice the countries that have free education are not what we think of as lands of scholars.

   I didn't know this , what is the indication of it that you are thinking about?

    I can imagine that when a person is laying out money for something they are less likely to be wasteful of it.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Ever notice the countries that have free education are not what we think of as lands of scholars. Thier barely notable for thier education.

I have noticed that this is not true at all. Israel, Germany, all of Scandinavia, France, Switzerland, the Netherlands all have free education to those that qualify at the requested level, and they are certainly "lands of scholars".   Making education free does not diminish the quality so long as ongoing  accomplishments in previous levels are validated correctly. Many of the best scientists in the US attended some or all of their education in Europe and in other places where education is free.

There are also scholars in countries where education is not free (by which I mean paid for by the government,

The single most important thing that education must do is inspire intellectual curiosity. That has to be accompanied by literacy and mathematics,

[kimba1]

Maybe I just talked to the wrong people but I've been to some of these countries and did not get this impression.

But I would still question the wisdom of having it here in the states . The key topics has not been addressed about these school. I get the strong impression financially school are irresponsibly out of control because they can and have no common sense to control. This is without it being free but by putting students in debt. Now we're talking about tax money with no mention of cost control or student counciling to insure students actually finish schools or even going to the right school for the student.

[Xavier_Onassis]

So what are the "lands of scholars" in your opinion?

Nobel prizes are fairly good indicators.
The US has had many excellent scholars, but there is also a long tradition of anti-intellectualism, the latest of which has been the Tea Party.

[Plane]

I challenge your assertion that the TEA party has any anti-intellectual purpose.

I consider all such accusations with a grain of salt.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country

USA 357

Of course it is not entirely fair to compare large countries to small ones this way.

[Plane]

But I would still question the wisdom of having it here in the states . The key topics has not been addressed about these school.

I think there are a lot of factors to consider in this .

Are we hurt or helped by making our best and brightest carry a heavy debt for the first decade of their careers?

Is College still the key to personal prosperity? Or does the initial cost as it is make it too difficult to earn its worth?

I think there is an enormous social benefit to having a lot of highly intelligent people with good educations, but this can't be had without the same thing being good for the individuals participating.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The signs at many a Tea Party rally indicate that many were written by near illiterates.
When some Teabagger says "We need to SEAL the Mexican Border" and "Get the Government's hands off my Social Security and/or Medicare" that indicates major stupidity.

[kimba1]

we used to be greatly anti-intellectual it`s in our language nerd,geek,etc. but we do seem to finally pull away from it. the debt is simply too high and makes getting a degree not finacially rewarding for many years  . I work in a lawfirm and alot of associates brown bag it often. I suspect the ones that don`t have a much longer period to pay it all back.

[Xavier_Onassis]

If you borrow $40K to finish college, with interest and a 20 year payback at you will  have to pay back $87,644 by the final payment.

[Plane]

"We need to SEAL the Mexican Border"

Is this the first Pun you have ever seen?

[Plane]

If you borrow $40K to finish college, with interest and a 20 year payback at you will  have to pay back $87,644 by the final payment.

Exactly!

This is like a years pay at a pretty good job.

Unless you get a much better than average job as a result of your education , the economic justification becomes weak.

[kimba1]

The debt will make the college grad take home payclose to the unskilled for quite awhile

[Xavier_Onassis]

I think that there should be free college for those who actually are motivated. Most of my students were not interested in actually learning much of anything.They would not buy the textbook, or even look at the ones put in the library for them to study.

A recall one student who told me that he had never read an entire book. I heard another say "I don't see why I need to take remedial math. I am a business major, and they won't let me take any business courses unless I pass Math 099. This was essentially a review of 7th to 10 grade math.

The fact that over half the students in local schools speak Spanish at home did not cause education majors to take Spanish seriously.

[kimba1]

Ok now you hit a point I was just haven't gotten to "motivation " the reason I don't want thier to be free education is because if the student has something invested in it they will try alittle harder. But these high dropouts seems to counter my idea. Maybe schools entry requirements are alot more laxed then we thought.

You did mention remedial requirements. I wonder what the failure rates from these classes