Riddle me this

[Xavier_Onassis]

That would be your opinion. Along with the talking snakes and the 100th generation being punished for listening to it.

[sirs]

Actually no, its a fact that neither I or ANYONE else must adhere to your human-set parameters of God

[Xavier_Onassis]

You have, as I said, your opinion.

[sirs]

Sorry to prove you wrong .......again, ......but its still a fact

Unless you can prove to the class that I and everyone else are bound by your OPINION of the parameters to God and what Christians are mandated to believe.   Good luck with that

[Plane]

The Renaissance was brought on by the defeat of the Byzantine Empire by the Ottoman Turks in 1453. The intellectuals of that area came to Italy as refugees. There were thinkers, teachers, artists, writers, sculptors and so forth. Venice was the first to receive them. Being as the Greek Church and the Roman church had a number of differences, there were discussions about philosophy and cosmology and the like. The priests in Venice did not have the power they had in Rome and other parts of Italy, and the doges that ruled it promoted discussion of what is art, what is literature and so forth.

Hmm....

I seem to have need of review on that timeline.

But I don't see the Reformation , I don't see the enlightenment happening in a Christian environment and I don't see the liberation of Spain being important.

I think of these as rather complex and interrelated , I am not terribly shamed to misunderstand a bit of it here and there, but thanks for the pointers.


   Anyhow , what moots the complexity is that the Byzantines were Christians too. Certainly the ones that needed to leave Constantinople  were, so why were they disruptive with Greek Humanism?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Anyhow , what moots the complexity is that the Byzantines were Christians too. Certainly the ones that needed to leave Constantinople  were, so why were they disruptive with Greek Humanism?

First, the Byzantine intellectuals did not bow to papal authority. The leaders of the Greek Orthodox Church had less power over their subjects than did the Italian popes. Second, the people who caused the changes were not priests or monks, but secular intellectuals. Many were hired to educate and tutor the children of the doges and other aristocrats,and it was those who received their education from these Byzantines that made the big changes and actually challenged the authority of the Pope. There was a reaction to these challenges. This was particularly strong in the city of Firenze (Florence)  when Savanarola took charge and attempted to end the Renaissance as a corrupt movement.

Read a book on the Renaissance and on this guy as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girolamo_Savonarola

The Renaissance lasted for three centuries at least, and was different in different places.\

And when it was over, the Humanists ended up on top and the worst features of the Holy Office (Inquisition) were over. Action -> reaction -> synthesis

[sirs]

Sorry to prove you wrong .......again, ......but its still a fact

Unless you can prove to the class that I and everyone else are bound by your OPINION of the parameters to God and what Christians are mandated to believe.   Good luck with that

Didn't think so

[Xavier_Onassis]

The basic tenets of the Christian religion are summed up in the Nicean Creed:
Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

=============================================
Perhaps you could state what parts of this, if any, you do not consider  to be basic tenets?

[sirs]

Basic tenents are simply guidelines.  They're in no way a mandate, in modern Christianity.  The ONLY mandate is that God is the only true God...that's it.  The commandments, tenets, etc, are all guidelines to try to live by, but since we are human, we still manage to sin....we're not perfect.  You do the best you can, but NO ONE is confined to YOUR interpretation of how a Christian is supposed to function, based on YOUR selected misapplication of scripture

[Xavier_Onassis]

I have no idea what you mean by all that sirs, and I doubt that you do, either.
\
I know what the Bible says, and I know that the Nicean Creed is a fundamental Christians belief,

Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
====================================

Are there any parts of this you disagree with? If so, what might they be?

[sirs]

I know precisely what I mean, as I'm confident you do to.  More importantly, I know what believers mean when they quote the bible vs what you do, when you take scripture out of context, then try to apply rigid boundaries to that and God, for believers who must then adhere to YOUR perceived boundaries.  Sorry, not going to fly

[Xavier_Onassis]

Discussing this with you is a total  and compete waste of time.

[sirs]

That's because you don't discuss things.  You simply insult, demean, and demagogue anything that doesn't fit your template.  Case in point, this entire thread.  That idea that we Christians are going to adhere to YOUR interpretation of the Bible, including what Christians must believe, or they can't be a Christian, is ludicrous on every level. 

And the cherry on top of that is the notion that God would have to be bound by the laws of physics and science, or else simply can't exist.  The amount of time you waste on trying to push that..... really should be a paid attraction, given its entertainment value

[Xavier_Onassis]

yeah, sure.
You are a waste of time sirs.

[sirs]

Proving my point yet again.  I thank you