Author Topic: Riddle me this  (Read 13572 times)

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sirs

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2016, 04:34:48 PM »
LOL...continuing to make my point...continuIng to try and imply God, who doesn't exist in your mind, that if he did, has to abide by the laws science & human understanding    ::)

No, we can't assume ANYTHING, outside of the point that God created everything.....period.  That's it.

And you're not required to believe that, nor am I required to prove it.  You believe it or you don't.  Why you feel compelled to ridicule people of faith, when no one ever ridicules your lack of faith, says far more about your apparent insecurities, than anything else
« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 05:01:01 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #76 on: April 30, 2016, 04:46:17 PM »
I do not think that claiming that God is too transcendent to be understood is much of a debating tactic.

   I think he alternative idea, that if neither one of us understand a thing , that it must not be true, is logically unsupportable.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #77 on: May 01, 2016, 05:32:49 AM »
We have all these believers who claim that  the Universe is so incredibly well ordered that its orderly nature is actually proof that God exists. What humans call science is the system of examining this order and making sense of it: we have determined that the Earth is composed of 190+ elements, with a description of each. we have determined the nature of gravity and how that works, we have determined from the nature of the order of the world how to make steam engines, how to make and use electricity and so forth.

But when it comes to the nature of God, well, then the believers say, hands off that, you cannot know that, it is far too complicated, your reasoning won't work there, and blah blah blah, we need to return to thinking of ourselves as being sheep.

The attitude that these believers take is exactly the attitude that kept us from discovering ANYTHING about the physical world. Jesus Christ technology is no technology at all. It has gotten us no where and is sure to never getting us anywhere. And THAT is what I am ridiculing: the idea that since it is too complicated and was not made in an easy way to comprehend, we must give up and stop trying.

This is the attitude of the medieval church, the monks, the Taliban and the Jews who have spent 3000 years annotating the Torah. And it is a path to nowhere and nothing. The path that causes people to give up the last 600 years of technology and say, "we will now return to being like sheep".
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #78 on: May 01, 2016, 01:43:21 PM »
So....the reason you ridicule and denigrate Christians is because they're.....like the Taliban??  Care to cite some Christians that want to stone women who've committed adultery, throw gay people off the top of roofs, and denounce any and all scientific discovery??  We'll wait while you compile this apparently extensive list
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 03:06:24 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #79 on: May 01, 2016, 05:53:07 PM »


But when it comes to the nature of God, well, then the believers say, hands off that, you cannot know that, it is far too complicated, your reasoning won't work there, and blah blah blah, we need to return to thinking of ourselves as being sheep.


   So a belief that nothing is beyond understanding is logical?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #80 on: May 01, 2016, 06:23:55 PM »
   So a belief that nothing is beyond understanding is logical?

It is simply giving up, and no one ever advances knowledge by just giving up.

The attitude of sirs and the Taliban is that they are right, they are following God's orders and
essentially concluding that illogical behavior is logical, because God wants it that way.

The results may be different, but the attitude is the same.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #81 on: May 01, 2016, 06:54:14 PM »
   So a belief that nothing is beyond understanding is logical?

It is simply giving up, and no one ever advances knowledge by just giving up.


 It is not !

It is realistic and humble , but it is giving up nothing.

That the frontier of knowledge will ever expand is potentially true, but that everything there is to know will be known is unreasoned.

So that there is truth past human understanding seems to be the result of logic, even if every effort is bent on increasing understanding.

In no scripture I know of is there any prohibition on increasing knowledge or improving understanding.

sirs

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #82 on: May 01, 2016, 08:01:45 PM »
BINGO!!


(as we all still wait for this list of prominent Christians and Minsters advocating the denouncement of all scientific discovery and the stoning of women & gays.  I mean, if we're like the Taliban, there has to be actionable connections.  Otherwise, that's no different than claiming xo has the mindset of a fascist Satan worshiper)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #83 on: May 02, 2016, 10:31:12 AM »
In no scripture I know of is there any prohibition on increasing knowledge or improving understanding.


Bullshit!

Mark 10:5
Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."
And then there is all that crap about how we should regard ourselves as a herd of sheep in the Lord's Prayer.

Sheep do not reason. They wait patiently to obey, then they get sheared and/or eaten.

The whole idea that the Earth should be a Kingdom ruled by  Jesus is against rational people leading themselves.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2016, 12:11:05 PM »
So...in other words, you have nothing of any examples or specific peoples that supposedly embrace the mindset of the Taliban and disavowing of scientific discovery.  Just your taken out of context scripture, and applying your non-believing concepts to it.  Reminds me of a poster, way back when, named dobbrx (something like that), who claimed, as a hearty anti-Christian, that a Christian wasn't a Christian, unless they were killing gays....because....he took some scripture out of context, and applied his version of what believers must believe.  Same scenario here

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

hnumpah

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2016, 12:25:26 PM »
Well, you would probably have to go back to the Dark Ages and Inquisition for examples of Christians behaving like the Taliban openly. Galileo was persecuted for saying the Earth revolved around the Sun, in opposition to what the Church taught based on their strict interpretation of Scripture at the time. Jews, and others, were tortured to force conversions to Christianity, or killed. The Muslim colonies in Europe, which had become centers of science and learning while the rest of Europe struggled through the Dark Ages, were wiped out. Sound familiar? Yes, Christianity had it's turn in the barrel too.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2016, 12:37:58 PM »
Oh, I completely agree, that at one time....A LOOOOOOONG TIME AGO (The Crusades come to mind), there was a Taliban like zealotry that people who were not Christian, should become so.  Which ironically, was a complete mutation of what Christ had taught us.  But that's for another topic)  Point being, xo gets off on doing precisely what Christians don't do to him, and his apparent justification is a completely barren list of examples he cites as his justification
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2016, 10:15:39 PM »
In no scripture I know of is there any prohibition on increasing knowledge or improving understanding.


Bullshit!

Mark 10:5
Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."
And then there is all that crap about how we should regard ourselves as a herd of sheep in the Lord's Prayer.

Sheep do not reason. They wait patiently to obey, then they get sheared and/or eaten.

The whole idea that the Earth should be a Kingdom ruled by  Jesus is against rational people leading themselves.

  Neither of these examples are encouragement to eschew learning.

     Even though a person may learn everything it is humanly possible to learn , and have as organized mind as well as any human can, and  understand the universe in the greatest detail that any human can, and be a humanist and a poet besides...Mark 10:5 would apply just as it would to an ordinary person, there is no intellectual cut off at the gate to heaven , neither high nor low.
    Thomas Aquinas and the stable boy that curried Thomas Aquinas's horse  have the same requirement to enter heaven.

    Read Mark 10:5 again and consider that the group he spoke that to included educated and illiterate men.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #88 on: May 02, 2016, 11:16:10 PM »
Read Mark 10:5 again and consider that the group he spoke that to included educated and illiterate men.


It is not quite as stupid as "Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing", and "if thy eye offends you, pluck it out".

Who the hell knows what he was taking to: it means "stop thinking and believe whatever crap I lay upon you."

If Jesus was so damned smart, he would have written his own Gospel.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Riddle me this
« Reply #89 on: May 02, 2016, 11:26:21 PM »
See what I mean....a perfect example of what I had just referenced...a non-believer laying claim to how the scripture is to be read...in order to rationalize why people shouldn't believe

Here's a news flash xo...as a Christian and believer, the Bible SAYS NO SUCH THING, AS IT RELATES TO "STOP THINKING".  That's exactly why we have free will....to decide for ourselves what to do, how to do, how to grow, how to improve....ALL THE WHILE, we remain as vigilant to our faith, as humanly possible

A believer gets that.  A non-believer, obviously not
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle