Author Topic: Outrage expressed by British actor  (Read 2108 times)

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Lanya

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Outrage expressed by British actor
« on: April 01, 2007, 11:46:35 PM »
Call that humiliation?


No hoods. No electric shocks. No beatings. These Iranians clearly are a very uncivilised bunch

Terry Jones
Saturday March 31, 2007
The Guardian

I share the outrage expressed in the British press over the treatment of our naval personnel accused by Iran of illegally entering their waters. It is a disgrace. We would never dream of treating captives like this - allowing them to smoke cigarettes, for example, even though it has been proven that smoking kills. And as for compelling poor servicewoman Faye Turney to wear a black headscarf, and then allowing the picture to be posted around the world - have the Iranians no concept of civilised behaviour? For God's sake, what's wrong with putting a bag over her head? That's what we do with the Muslims we capture: we put bags over their heads, so it's hard to breathe. Then it's perfectly acceptable to take photographs of them and circulate them to the press because the captives can't be recognised and humiliated in the way these unfortunate British service people are.

It is also unacceptable that these British captives should be made to talk on television and say things that they may regret later. If the Iranians put duct tape over their mouths, like we do to our captives, they wouldn't be able to talk at all. Of course they'd probably find it even harder to breathe - especially with a bag over their head - but at least they wouldn't be humiliated.

And what's all this about allowing the captives to write letters home saying they are all right? It's time the Iranians fell into line with the rest of the civilised world: they should allow their captives the privacy of solitary confinement. That's one of the many privileges the US grants to its captives in Guantánamo Bay.

The true mark of a civilised country is that it doesn't rush into charging people whom it has arbitrarily arrested in places it's just invaded. The inmates of Guantánamo, for example, have been enjoying all the privacy they want for almost five years, and the first inmate has only just been charged. What a contrast to the disgraceful Iranian rush to parade their captives before the cameras!

What's more, it is clear that the Iranians are not giving their British prisoners any decent physical exercise. The US military make sure that their Iraqi captives enjoy PT. This takes the form of exciting "stress positions", which the captives are expected to hold for hours on end so as to improve their stomach and calf muscles. A common exercise is where they are made to stand on the balls of their feet and then squat so that their thighs are parallel to the ground. This creates intense pain and, finally, muscle failure. It's all good healthy fun and has the bonus that the captives will confess to anything to get out of it.

And this brings me to my final point. It is clear from her TV appearance that servicewoman Turney has been put under pressure. The newspapers have persuaded behavioural psychologists to examine the footage and they all conclude that she is "unhappy and stressed".

What is so appalling is the underhand way in which the Iranians have got her "unhappy and stressed". She shows no signs of electrocution or burn marks and there are no signs of beating on her face. This is unacceptable. If captives are to be put under duress, such as by forcing them into compromising sexual positions, or having electric shocks to their genitals, they should be photographed, as they were in Abu Ghraib. The photographs should then be circulated around the civilised world so that everyone can see exactly what has been going on.

As Stephen Glover pointed out in the Daily Mail, perhaps it would not be right to bomb Iran in retaliation for the humiliation of our servicemen, but clearly the Iranian people must be made to suffer - whether by beefing up sanctions, as the Mail suggests, or simply by getting President Bush to hurry up and invade, as he intends to anyway, and bring democracy and western values to the country, as he has in Iraq.

· Terry Jones is a film director, actor and Python
www.terry-jones.net
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BT

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2007, 12:13:38 AM »
Isn't parading captives in front of cameras against the geneva convention?

The brits were in uniform when caught, no?



sirs

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2007, 01:03:44 AM »
Isn't parading captives in front of cameras against the geneva convention?  The brits were in uniform when caught, no?

Oooops.  Let's all sit back and watch Lanya's come back to that
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Lanya

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2007, 03:44:40 AM »
Yes, BT.  It is against Geneva rules. I don't like that they're their or how they're being treated.
Point of the article is, it could be worse.

Here's another story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6515701.stm

British citizen, a business man from London,  held for almost 5 years in Guantanamo for having a "suspicious device" in his luggage.  It was a battery charger.  His friend is still there.  This is what we're doing.    Where is the America of Peace Corps, blue jeans, movies, chocolate bars, Berlin air drops, freedom of thought and expression? Now we're associated with Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and bullies and incompetence.   
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BT

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2007, 06:55:39 AM »
No Lanya.

The point of the article is it is ok to violate the geneva convention if you are any country other than the US. And i don't think we are violating the Geneva Convention. But there is little doubt the Iranians are.



Plane

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2007, 09:15:21 AM »
In the cases mentioned here all of the prisoners , hostages and victims are British.



Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2007, 03:00:09 PM »
. And i don't think we are violating the Geneva Convention. But there is little doubt the Iranians are.

===========================================
Whoa there!

The US (I am not going to call the clowns at Guantanamo or Abu Graib "WE") was not violating the Geneva Conventoion at Abu Graib?

Hooding, attacking naked prisioners with dogs, making human pyramids,  and smearing them with poo are not violations to you?

Holding a guy for years without trial  because he had a battery charger in his car is not a violation?

Face it: the US committed grave errors. The Iranians, comparatatively, are just impolite.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2007, 03:11:01 PM »
The Iranians are schemeing.

I don't think that the people who decided to capture a few hostages are going to be put on trial and spend any years in an Iranian federal penatentiary.


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BT

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2007, 04:19:35 PM »
Quote
Whoa there!

Why?

Was Abu Ghraib offficialy sanctioned like the Iranian parading of Brit prisoners of war?

Were the prisoners in Abu Ghraib captured soldiers from the Republican Guard?

What courts have ruled the Gitmo prisoners are covered by the Geneva Convention?



Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2007, 05:24:49 PM »
Was Abu Ghraib offficialy sanctioned like the Iranian parading of Brit prisoners of war?
\
The truth will eventually come out that Gitmo people were brought into Abu Graib to hood, torture and all the other crap that happened at Abu Graib. It was clearly sanctioned by Rumsfeld, who managed to provide himself with deniability


Were the prisoners in Abu Ghraib captured soldiers from the Republican Guard?
 I am sure some were. A lot more were innocent of anything other than being in the wrong place.

What courts have ruled the Gitmo prisoners are covered by the Geneva Convention?

Oh please. Who gives a crap about legality? The issue is morality. If this is a war on Terrorism, then they are Soldiers of Terror. Why would they have fewer rights than say soldiers of the US or the UK?

The world is not going to judge Rummy, Dickless and Juniorbush based on their ability to come up with lame excuses and copouts. And it shouldn't have to, either.

The British prisoners have not been tortured or harmed in any way.

The border in the Shat al Arab has been disputed for YEARS. It was the Shatt Al Arab dispute that was the main motivation for the Iran-Iraq War. Everybody, except perhaps you, knows this.

We all know that no harm will come to these soldiers.
And, may I add, as Superchicken always says to Fred "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it."

We who are not there should not be outraged. EWe should be entertained. It is political theatre, and is not to be taken seriously.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2007, 06:07:19 PM »
The truth will eventually come out that Gitmo people were brought into Abu Graib to hood, torture and all the other crap that happened at Abu Graib. It was clearly sanctioned by Rumsfeld, who managed to provide himself with deniability.  Were the prisoners in Abu Ghraib captured soldiers from the Republican Guard?  I am sure some were. A lot more were innocent of anything other than being in the wrong place.

I think we're back to the "obvious" tactic of accusation validation, since there's currently not a shred of proof to anything Xo is currently ranting about      ::)

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2007, 09:02:17 PM »
It's about morality now, no proof necessary, though i'm not sure what the moral value of baseless speculation is, nor do i know who decides what is moral.

The_Professor

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Re: Outrage expressed by British actor
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2007, 11:01:44 PM »
The point is that the Brits ARE being treated in violation of the Geneva Convnetion, regardless whether anyone else, including the U.S. does.

How long does this charade go on before someone must make a point that such behavior is not acceptable?