Author Topic: Two articles about hate crimes laws  (Read 3497 times)

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Lanya

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Two articles about hate crimes laws
« on: April 28, 2007, 02:08:52 AM »
U.S. clergy seeks to expand hate-crime law to gays
By Eric Pfeiffer | Published  Apr/18/2007 | Family and Society , Religion and Culture , North America | Rating:
Fears that law will target groups opposed to homosexuality

By Eric Pfeiffer
The Washington Times

WASHINGTON -- Clergy members from all 50 states gathered on Capitol Hill yesterday to support expanding hate-crime laws to protect homosexuals.

"It is morally wrong to deprive anyone of the means to feed themselves and care for their families," said Bishop Carlton Pearson of the New Dimensions Worship Center in Tulsa, Okla. "Passage of this bill will help gay, lesbian and transgender people in 33 states where you can be fired for simply being gay."

The measure, similar to three versions that have failed in the past decade, calls for charging the Justice Department with investigating crimes potentially motivated by sexual orientation or gender identity as it does for crimes considered racially or religiously motivated.

Supporters of the bill, named the Matthew Shepard Act after a homosexual college student killed in Wyoming, say a Democrat-controlled Congress makes it more likely that the legislation will reach President Bush, who has not said whether he would veto such legislation.

"It's on a very fast track," said the Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values Coalition, a group opposed to the legislation.

Mr. Sheldon says he thinks people and organizations that oppose homosexuality would be unfairly targeted by the Justice Department if complaints were filed against them strictly based on political and philosophical differences.

"This bill begins to lay the legal foundation and framework to investigate, prosecute and persecute pastors, business owners, and anyone else whose actions are based upon, and reflect, the truths found in the Bible," he said.

Sen. Gordon H. Smith, Oregon Republican who sponsored the Senate bill, disagreed, saying it is not designed to curtail freedom of speech.

"Unless they believe part of their religion is the practice of violence against others, they should not be affected by this bill," Mr. Smith told the Associated Press last week. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts Democrat, co-sponsored the measure.

Reps. John Conyers Jr., Michigan Democrat, and Mark Steven Kirk, Illinois Republican, have introduced the House version, which could make it to the floor for a full vote by early next month.

More than 200 organizations have attached their support to the legislation, including some of the nation's more prominent lobbying organizations such as the AFL-CIO, American Medial Association and the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

According to the most recent FBI statistics, there were 1,171 reported hate crimes targeting homosexuals in 2005, or 14 percent of all hate crimes reported that year.
http://wpherald.com/articles/4378/1/US-clergy-seeks-to-expand-hate-crime-law-to-gays/Fears-that-law-will-target-groups-opposed-to-homosexuality.html

And now the 'con' side:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/27/AR2007042701899.html
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BT

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2007, 04:31:13 AM »
Quote
"It is morally wrong to deprive anyone of the means to feed themselves and care for their families," said Bishop Carlton Pearson of the New Dimensions Worship Center in Tulsa, Okla. "Passage of this bill will help gay, lesbian and transgender people in 33 states where you can be fired for simply being gay."

Sounds like back door ( no pun intended) legislation that should be more properly aimed at discrimination laws in the various states. Either that or Bishop Pearson does not understand the act he is advocating.


Amianthus

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2007, 09:03:18 AM »
And the thought police march on...
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

domer

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2007, 12:51:27 PM »
The key to understanding this bill is the comment of Senator Smith, who notes that, basically, the legislation is designed to punish violent crimes with a demonstrable anti-gay intent behind them. New Jersey, for example, has had a similar hate-crime law on its books for ages, and beyond that has a very strong "gay rights" plank in its general anti-discrimination law. There are no untoward consequences of this legislative package. I have argued before, specifically as to the wisdom of hate crime legislation, that adding the "hate feature" to a crime or a series of crime -- that is, an added penalty for DEMONSTRABLE anti-gay, say, animus -- targets 1) the increased indignity a gay might suffer by being reviled in this way during an attack and 2) the wider harm to the fabric of the community when news of the attack spreads the hateful purpose involved. While such laws do encourage decency and civility toward the "target group," this is the common effect of all anti-discrimination legislation, and since sanction is reserved only for hate coupled with forbidden action, it is not an instance of the thought police rearing their heads irresonsibly.

Lanya

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2007, 06:01:37 PM »
"Thought police" aren't the point.  Violent crimes are the point.  No one has a constitutional right to commit a violent crime  because he or she hates someone.
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BT

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2007, 07:03:03 PM »
Violent crimes aren't the point.

Special classes of citizenry are.

The gays want to be included as a special class.

There are plenty of laws on the books against violent crime.

I don't see why the penalty should be more severe for one class over another.


Lanya

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2007, 08:03:14 PM »
Then would you say we should take away the coverage this law provides to members who are of one religion or another?  Christians are covered in this "special category."
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BT

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2007, 09:59:26 PM »
Then would you say we should take away the coverage this law provides to members who are of one religion or another?  Christians are covered in this "special category."

I don't see why it should be more serious to smack a Jew than a Muslim. So to answer your question yes i am for treating people equally. Hate crime legislation by definition doesn't.

Amianthus

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2007, 10:31:03 PM »
"Thought police" aren't the point.  Violent crimes are the point.

There are no laws against violent crime on the books? Isn't this a law to enhance the punishment of a violent crime if the person is thinking "wrong thoughts" while committing the crime?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

domer

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2007, 10:38:43 PM »
Pure thought would not be punished nor would pure speech under a hate crimes regime. The rationale of such laws is punishing an objective manifestation of hate (such as derisive racist language) occurring in propinquity with the violent crime. It is rational, a legislature may reason, to add these sentence enhancers as a further deterrent to violent crimes involving historically beleagured populations, whose own very histories justify the added protection, or not, as the legislature sees fit.

Lanya

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2007, 10:54:21 PM »
Either my search abilities are poor or...yeah, that's probably it.  Anyway, this is the best source I could find on hate crimes legislation.
http://www.adl.org/99hatecrime/federal.asp

Seems weak.
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Plane

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2007, 01:41:24 AM »
I do not like the "hate crimes " idea.

People who might harm people with no hate in their hearts at all should not get less punishment .

If I were to attack a minority person and be found guilty at trial , would the length of my sentence depend on the reason for my crime? ,or on the effect of it?
or on my danger to people who do not deserve to be attacked?

When you have answered this treble question then try to factor in how much less harm is done by my crime if I am a member of the same minority as my victim , and therefore immune to the extra penalties.


A majority of violent crime victims are victimised by members of their own community , although "Hate Crime " legislation has a nice ring to it , it promises to do nothing effective about crime at all.

People who are seetheing with Hate are warnedin scripture that they are liable to be punished by God , but we are not God , if someone is seethed in hate but as the self controll to never cause harm  we should applaud him more than the person who is non violent because he has no violent desires.

Lanya

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2007, 10:39:42 PM »
Hate crimes laws mean a great deal if you're a member of a group that is often picked upon for whatever reason.
That's why we need it.

This is a horrible account of a young girl getting stoned to death in Iraq. 

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engMDE140272007?open&of=eng-IRQ
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Amianthus

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2007, 10:47:40 PM »
This is a horrible account of a young girl getting stoned to death in Iraq. 

So, it's not already against the law to stone someone in the US?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

BT

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Re: Two articles about hate crimes laws
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2007, 11:12:56 PM »
Hate crimes laws mean a great deal if you're a member of a group that is often picked upon for whatever reason.
That's why we need it.

This is a horrible account of a young girl getting stoned to death in Iraq. 

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engMDE140272007?open&of=eng-IRQ

Your example i don't believe would qualify as a hate crime. It wasn't perpetuated by a person from one group against a member of anoher group based on hate.

It was based on their concept of "honour". In america it might be labeled a crime of passion.