Author Topic: Ayman al-Zawahri  (Read 9864 times)

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Plane

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2007, 02:50:53 PM »
" If the U.S. military weren't such cowardly little shits, they'd go mano-a-mano with the Resistance and take their losses like men.  "


That might be nice , do you suppose we could get the Al Quieda to participate in something like that?

sirs

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2007, 08:29:08 PM »
<<No, it's actually better to target Terrorist strongholds, and kill terrorists.  This isn't carpet bombing Tee, and the fact you have yet to demonstrate how we specifically target civilians, like AlQeada does speaks volumes for the lack of perspective you demonstrate on a daily basis>>

I think it's YOUR perspective that's way out of whack, sirs, and I'll tell you why.  All that emphasis on "targeting" and none on the results.  If I start a war and 600,000 civilians wind up dead as a result, it is very small comfort to know that those 600,000 were mostly "collateral damage." 

You planning on differentiating those accidentally killed by coalition forces and those murdered by your prescious freedom fighters, any time soon?  Because it does actually make a difference, as it relates the specific outcomes being seeked.  The mindset used in trying to avoid civilian casualties, when the enemy is literally hiding behind said civilians, is a testament to the dedication our soldiers have towards the sanctity at life.  Granted you'll laugh at such a concept, since in your mind, our soldiers are just as bad, if not worse than terrorists, so such a concept is obviously beyond your comprehension.  Point being we do NOT target civilians, as Al Qeada does, as Islamic militants do, as Iraqi insurgents do


The war doesn't HAVE to be fought in a way that maximizes "collateral" civilian losses and minimizes American military losses. 

Now, you're just blowing smoke, since we are exhausting every avenue in trying to minimize civilian casualties.  We're NOT carpet bombing, we're NOT doing mass shelling, we're NOT launching multiple MLRS rounds into blocks of neighborhoods.  THAT's what would be equivalent to your asanine "maximizing collateral civilian losses"     ::)


If the U.S. military weren't such cowardly little shits, they'd go mano-a-mano with the Resistance and take their losses like men.   Bottom line is, the numbers don't lie - - Americans have killed thousands of innocent civilians for every one killed by "terrorists."  And hiding behind the absurd distinction that nobody was "targeted" doesn't mean shit

Feel better?  Get it all out yet?


To the victims and their families, it makes no difference at all whether they were targeted or collateral - - they're just as dead either way

The closest thing you've come to rational thought, thru-out this entire diatribe, since absolute a family member who lost a loved one in war isn't going to care if they were targeted or not, with every one of them absolutely tragic.  What they will care about is who's trying to help them after the fact, and HOW that death occured.  And the garbage being applied by the likes of you and similar minds. in how we're supposedly no different than terrorists who purposely cut off civilians heads, burn them alive, and give high fives to each other when they've killed scores of civilians, simply helps facilitate their anger, leading to a perpetuation of the status quo, of more civilian lives lost.  Thanks loads     >:(
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2007, 09:52:21 PM »
In answer to sirs' last post and without any cutting and pasting - - I think most of his argument depends on the concept of "targeting."  The Americans can kill a hundred thousand Iraqis, but if those 100,000 were "collateral damage" rather than deliberately targeted, this kinda lets them off the hook.  If the Iraqi Resistance kills 40,000 targeted Iraqis, this makes them [the Resistance fighters] a lot worse than the killers of the 100,000 not-targeted people.

That argument, IMHO, might have some application if the Iraqis had launched a war of aggression against America.  I know, regarding the Germans and Japs, I don't give a shit how many millions of them were killed.  Considering the atrocities their armies committed, considering that they started the war in the first place, not only were their casualties well-deserved and fully justified, I actually feel it's a crying shame that there weren't a whole lot more.  However, those considerations do not apply when the victims of the bombing did not start the war in the first place.  They are doubly victimized, first as being warred on without provocation and secondly by the actual killing and maiming that they must suffer.  For the U.S. to START a war on Iraq, and then say, of the mountains of Iraqi dead, Oh, it's a shame, but nobody targeted them, it was all an accident - - that is just BS. 

The decision to start the war and the decision to conduct it as it was conducted, those were decisions that carried with them on Day One the certainty that hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would die.  Somebody had to know how many million tons of explosives needed to be shipped out, how many aircraft, how many bombs.  One way or another that translated into mega-deaths and everyone who had a hand in planning the attack knew that.  That none of the deaths was an individually targeted death is a transparent cop-out.

sirs

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2007, 09:58:34 PM »
In answer to sirs' last post and without any cutting and pasting - - I think most of his argument depends on the concept of "targeting."  

As it is defined with pretty much the rest of humanity, vs my "concept", it's where one kills/murders what one intends to kill/murder.  Not sure where else one could go with the concept of "targeting".  Then again, in Tee's version of reality, the sky's the limit on such a term

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2007, 11:41:51 PM »

"If the Iraqi Resistance kills 40,000 targeted Iraqis, this makes them [the Resistance fighters] a lot worse than the killers of the 100,000 not-targeted people."




What if these figures are reversed?

If there were 40,000 innocent Iriquis caught in American crossfire but  100,000 targeted people fallen to the Al Queda and the factions of Irquis struggleing to replace Saddam with a new Saddam. Would your opinion be reversed?

How do we know that this is not the case in reality?  For the last two years there has been little areal bombing bt a lot of suicide bombing since the Insurgents are intent on unning up the numbers and this is the most key tactic of their strategy it is really inevitable that they will kill a greater number of non-combatants .


Very likely they already have.

The_Professor

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2007, 11:53:29 PM »
<<Is he inviting us to stay?

Sure sounds like it to me.

<<At present rates killing 300,000 Americans would requir the expenditure of 3,000,000 Al Quieda members and 30,00,000 bystanders.

<<Are these his best ideas?>>

If you noticed, he invoked the assistance of Allah to get up to those numbers.  I find it surprising that you would doubt the power of the Almighty to affect the outcome as requested.

No, I doubt the veracity of a demon to accomplish this. Of course, working through people, however, it could get done. And might. It is almost impossible to fight an enemy who is willing to give their ALL for a CAUSE, unless you kill all of them, which in this case is impractical.
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The_Professor

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2007, 11:55:29 PM »
And yet something tells me that if you piled up all the little girls killed by al Qaeda and all the little girls killed by American troops, this is a contest that the locals could never hope to win.  In addition, I think you'd find some of the Americans' victims had been raped as well.

MT, if you hate America so greatly, why then live in a nation that is our closest friend? Doesn't this make you guilty by association?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 11:58:49 PM by The_Professor »
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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Plane

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2007, 12:14:37 AM »
And yet something tells me that if you piled up all the little girls killed by al Qaeda and all the little girls killed by American troops, this is a contest that the locals could never hope to win.  In addition, I think you'd find some of the Americans' victims had been raped as well.

MT, if you hate America so greatly, why then live in a nation that is our closest friend? Doesn't this make you guilty by association?


Canada has oil.

MT knows that we have an urgent need to controll oil , so he is prepareing his resistance propaganda.

Michael Tee

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2007, 12:21:50 PM »
<<MT, if you hate America so greatly, why then live in a nation that is our closest friend? Doesn't this make you guilty by association?>>

I don't hate America, Professor, I'm just totally disgusted with them right now and I let it show.  What is America anyway but the sum of its parts?  Some of the parts I hate, some I love.  The bad parts are in control right now - - you could say that I hate Bush, but it's more the guys around him, he's basically an empty suit - - but the war in Iraq wasn't an accident - - it was engineered, and I hate the people who engineered it.  I hate the people who carry it on.  I hate the torturers and the murderers.

Thre used to be a good side to America, but I see that the good is more and more submerged every year by the bad.  It isn't getting better, it's getting worse.  Interests have taken over the political process and they've infiltrated both sides of the political spectrum.  That's why it didn't really matter whether Kerry or Bush won the last election.  That's why it doesn't matter that the Democrats won control over the Senate and the House - - they grandstand and play to the anti-war votes but they won't defund (as BT delights in pointing out) and they won't change a God-damn thing.

I feel bad that I came across as hating America -- you know I have more aunts, uncles and first cousins in the U.S.A. than I do in Canada.  One of my daughters lives and works in Manhattan and my two grandchildren are U.S. citizens.  Both of my daughters went to grad school in the U.S. with my blessing, one at Columbia, one at NYU.  (I insisted that all three of my kids get their undergrad degrees here in Toronto.)  America was a great country with the brightest future of any country on earth.  More than that, it really was, for a time, the "hope and beacon" of the human race.  But it's going down.  A military-industrial complex has figured out how to get things done their way under the facade of a "democracy" and they aren't letting go of the levers.

Ever since the fall of the Soviet Union, America has had a free hand in the world.  It was able to act without restraint and it gave in to its worst impulses.  There's only one thing that can stop America in its evil tracks, and that's the rise of a new world super-power, China maybe, or if we're lucky, India.  But it won't be in my lifetime.  All I can look forward to is more Abu Ghraibs, more Panama Cities.

sirs

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2007, 12:38:42 PM »
<<MT, if you hate America so greatly, why then live in a nation that is our closest friend? Doesn't this make you guilty by association?>>

I don't hate America, Professor, I'm just totally disgusted with them right now and I let it show.  What is America anyway but the sum of its parts?  Some of the parts I hate, some I love.  The bad parts are in control right now....Thre used to be a good side to America

*snicker*......when Democrats ran everything of course
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2007, 12:49:13 PM »
<<If there were 40,000 innocent Iriquis caught in American crossfire but  100,000 targeted people fallen to the Al Queda and the factions of Irquis struggleing to replace Saddam with a new Saddam. Would your opinion be reversed?

<<How do we know that this is not the case in reality?  For the last two years there has been little areal bombing bt a lot of suicide bombing since the Insurgents are intent on unning up the numbers and this is the most key tactic of their strategy it is really inevitable that they will kill a greater number of non-combatants .>>


Starting a war is a very grave and serious step.  Nobody can ever predict the consequences of war.  Neither Hitler nor Chamberlain could have predicted the consequences of the war that began Sept. 1, 1939.  LBJ was not able to predict the consequences of the Viet Nam War.

But one thing everybody who starts a war knows:  a lot of people can get killed.  Who they are, where they are, how they will die, might not be predictable.  But that an unbearable load of human suffering will be let loose upon the earth, that much (or that little) the originators of a war have to know.

Bush started the war on Iraq.  Bush is responsible for every single death that occurred in that war.  Every one.  Because it was his choice to start the war or to abide by the principles of international law, by Article Four of the Charter of the United Nations.  He chose to flout that law, he chose to start a war, he chose to start off down a path which led to each and every death that has occurred to date in Iraq and all the deaths that will follow.

Michael Tee

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2007, 01:08:41 PM »
<<*snicker*......when Democrats ran everything of course>>

Not always.  It was Eisenhower who first warned the nation of the "military-industrial complex."  It was Eisenhower who sent the troops to Little Rock Central High.

sirs

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2007, 01:35:06 PM »
<<*snicker*......when Democrats ran everything of course>>

Not always.  It was Eisenhower who first warned the nation of the "military-industrial complex."  It was Eisenhower who sent the troops to Little Rock Central High.

ok, 1 time.  Yea, that refutes all else          ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2007, 01:44:47 PM »
<<ok, 1 time.  Yea, that refutes all else   >>

Sorry, sirs, there was only one Republican President between FDR and Nixon.    They didn't manufacture any more for that period.     

sirs

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Re: Ayman al-Zawahri
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2007, 01:53:29 PM »
<<ok, 1 time.  Yea, that refutes all else   >>

Sorry, sirs, there was only one Republican President between FDR and Nixon.    They didn't manufacture any more for that period.      

Must have missed the part where I specifically referenced "when democrats ran everything".  You'll note I didn't qualify it as when only Democrat Presidents were running things.  That's ok though, you're forgiven
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle