Author Topic: Poll from Christianity Today  (Read 5115 times)

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Lanya

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Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

The_Professor

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2007, 07:45:52 PM »
And so the way of non-Biblical standards being Absolute is fast slipping away...
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2007, 10:56:43 AM »
And so the way of non-Biblical standards being Absolute is fast slipping away...

Actually, what is slipping away are Biblical standards being taken as absolute.

The only way to make a film about Noah and the Ark is to make it a comedy. Think about it.

History repeats itself, first as a tragedy, then as a farce.


First, the inquisition, then Evan Almighty.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

The_Professor

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2007, 11:20:07 AM »
"Why do the wicked prosper?" once said a great man.

XO, this transition doesn't surprise me, only saddens me. But, it WAS expected and prognosticated about after all.

People will do whatever they feel is okay and that is the sad part because without Absolutes, there is no standard. And without standards, anarchy reigns. It only takes a healthy dose of good ole human nature.
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

_JS

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2007, 11:43:49 AM »
I don't really see how firing an individual based on his or her sexuality is an issue of whether or not there are absolutes. I certainly do not see how claiming that AIDS is a punishment for immorality is an absolute (based on Biblical interpretation?).

As for standards, what do you expect from the multiplicity of rampant ipseity?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2007, 12:12:40 PM »
People will do whatever they feel is okay and that is the sad part because without Absolutes, there is no standard. And without standards, anarchy reigns. It only takes a healthy dose of good ole human nature.
=========================================================

I suggest that the source of standards should be something other than the Bible, being as the Bible condones capital punishment for a multiplicity of acts no civilized person could consider crimes (witchcraft, homosexuality, sassy children) as well as slavery, wifebeating, and eating cakes made of doo-doo.

It is also true that absolutes are often unjust: ie, executing anyone who kils anyone else for any reason or no reason at all.

We do not have anarchy in the USA. We have never enacted the Bible as law, either.

There is not, and never will be, a perfect state. There is always room for improvement, however.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

The_Professor

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2007, 12:14:39 PM »
JS: "I don't really see how firing an individual based on his or her sexuality is an issue of whether or not there are absolutes. "

Shall we get in to the issue, yet again, of what theWord of God says about such issues? Homosexuality, for example, is anathema.

Yeah, yeah, I know, the World says otherwise. So, should I expect different?
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

The_Professor

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2007, 12:15:56 PM »
People will do whatever they feel is okay and that is the sad part because without Absolutes, there is no standard. And without standards, anarchy reigns. It only takes a healthy dose of good ole human nature.
=========================================================

I suggest that the source of standards should be something other than the Bible, being as the Bible condones capital punishment for a multiplicity of acts no civilized person could consider crimes (witchcraft, homosexuality, sassy children) as well as slavery, wifebeating, and eating cakes made of doo-doo.

It is also true that absolutes are often unjust: ie, executing anyone who kils anyone else for any reason or no reason at all.

We do not have anarchy in the USA. We have never enacted the Bible as law, either.

There is not, and never will be, a perfect state. There is always room for improvement, however.


Ok, so what do you suggest as the standards then, if not the Bible? Or should I ask?
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2007, 12:19:59 PM »
How about the US Constitution?

British common law?

The Code Napoleon?

The Bible is not in the running here, and never was, and never will be. And that is a GOOD THING.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2007, 12:22:48 PM »
How about the US Constitution?

British common law?

The Code Napoleon?

The Bible is not in the running here, and never was, and never will be. And that is a GOOD THING.


What makes any of these a good thing?

_JS

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2007, 12:45:11 PM »
JS: "I don't really see how firing an individual based on his or her sexuality is an issue of whether or not there are absolutes. "

Shall we get in to the issue, yet again, of what theWord of God says about such issues? Homosexuality, for example, is anathema.

Yeah, yeah, I know, the World says otherwise. So, should I expect different?

Homosexuality might be looked upon as a sin, but I do not recall it being said that hiring a sinner is a heinous act, nor do I recall it being said to remove all sinners from employment.

I certainly do not recall AIDS being pronounced as a condemnation of sin from God. I don't think God gave Evangelical Christians that authority to be sure.

It isn't a matter of the world "saying" otherwise. Every Christian must make penance.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

The_Professor

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2007, 01:28:08 PM »
You make an intriguing point here, JS. I have had homosexuals working for me and I could care less whether thye were of that persuaion or not as long as they got the job done. In fact, when I was in the Federal Service, my most producitve worker was a homosexual. He pulled my bacon out of the fire many many times. I also felt bad that I couldn't really compensate him for being so effective due to the dumb Federal Government pay scales. I was able to provide him with a $200 Special Act Award each year, but that was all.

So, would I fire someone becuae of his sexual orientation? No way! He/she should be held to the same standards as every other employee.
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

kimba1

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2007, 02:16:54 PM »
some of my most effective supervisors are gay.
as I always said in many post when it comes doing any job
I have yet heard anyone say gays are incompetent.
it`s always a policy issue never ability.


hnumpah

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2007, 02:23:28 PM »
Quote
Homosexuality might be looked upon as a sin, but I do not recall it being said that hiring a sinner is a heinous act, nor do I recall it being said to remove all sinners from employment.

Ah, here we go...

Leviticus 18

1 And the LORD said to Moses,
2 "Say to the people of Israel, I am the LORD your God.
3 You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes.
4 You shall do my ordinances and keep my statutes and walk in them. I am the LORD your God.
5 You shall therefore keep my statutes and my ordinances, by doing which a man shall live: I am the LORD.
6 "None of you shall approach any one near of kin to him to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD.
7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness.
9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or born abroad.
10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness.
11 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife's daughter, begotten by your father, since she is your sister.
12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's near kinswoman. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's near kinswoman.
14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother, that is, you shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt.
15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; she is your brother's nakedness.
17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, and you shall not take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter to uncover her nakedness; they are your near kinswomen; it is wickedness.
18 And you shall not take a woman as a rival wife to her sister, uncovering her nakedness while her sister is yet alive.
19 "You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness while she is in her menstrual uncleanness.
20 And you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor's wife, and defile yourself with her.
21 You shall not give any of your children to devote them by fire to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
23 And you shall not lie with any beast and defile yourself with it, neither shall any woman give herself to a beast to lie with it: it is perversion.
24 "Do not defile yourselves by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am casting out before you defiled themselves;
25 and the land became defiled, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.
26 But you shall keep my statutes and my ordinances and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you
27 (for all of these abominations the men of the land did, who were before you, so that the land became defiled);
28 lest the land vomit you out, when you defile it, as it vomited out the nation that was before you.
29 For whoever shall do any of these abominations, the persons that do them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 So keep my charge never to practice any of these abominable customs which were practiced before you, and never to defile yourselves by them: I am the LORD your God."

Note especially verses 22 and 29. 22 pertains to homosexuality specifically, and 29 is the punishment for such, as well as all the other sins listed. Cutting a person off basically means casting them out, no longer allowing them to participate in or be members of the community. I think that would also mean not hiring them.

But then in Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.

I'd say that definitely rules out hiring them. Ab-so-lutely.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Poll from Christianity Today
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2007, 02:36:47 PM »
How about the US Constitution?

British common law?

The Code Napoleon?

The Bible is not in the running here, and never was, and never will be. And that is a GOOD THING.


What makes any of these a good thing?
===========================================================================
It is a GOOD THING that the Bible is not the basis for our laws, and has never been the basis, and never will be the basis.

The deal is that some people, who have never actually READ the bloody thing, are entirely unaware of the hate, bigotry, and superstition that pervades the Bible. Perhaps you are one of those people.

These parts of the Bible are rarely used as the basis for sermons, and preachers tend to look the other way rather than get into the gory details.

But the Bible is homophobic, bigoted, anti-women, and even pro-slavery. It is just anti slavery if one proposes that the slaves be Hebrews, they being the Chosen People and all.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."